1" spacer, camber, and Subtle Solutions

[bajaguy]

So I've had this hankering to lift my 2005 baja. People have commented on other posts saying its relatively easy to make them yourself...It seems that way. Recently, I have had friends comment on my idea talking about camber adjustments.

1. If anyone has gotten the Subtle Solutions 1" spacer kit, does it have any special dimensions/corrections for technical suspension stuff (like angled weird where the bolts go through) or is it straight and simple?

2. What is the best material to make them out of?

3. I'm assuming I will need an alignment when its all said and done?

4. Where do you get to the rear suspension from? Under the seat or under the bed?

5. Has anyone had trouble with the added tension on the axles/drivetrain?

Thanks!

[Skemcin]

So I've had this hankering to lift my 2005 baja. People have commented on other posts saying its relatively easy to make them yourself...It seems that way. Recently, I have had friends comment on my idea talking about camber adjustments.

1. If anyone has gotten the Subtle Solutions 1" spacer kit, does it have any special dimensions/corrections for technical suspension stuff (like angled weird where the bolts go through) or is it straight and simple?

2. What is the best material to make them out of?

3. I'm assuming I will need an alignment when its all said and done?

4. Where do you get to the rear suspension from? Under the seat or under the bed?

5. Has anyone had trouble with the added tension on the axles/drivetrain?

Thanks!

I know Tyler (bajamud) had 1" spacers on his last Baja and he's being patient as we (Gorilla Offroad Company) roll out spacers out. We use HDPE because it has enough tensile strength for the job. Subtle uses 6061 aluminum. Its a little over kill - it's like bringing a tennis racquet to a ping pong match - not that its bad, but realistically you don't *need* to spend that much money on that part.

Anyway, more to what you want to know ...

1.) I'm not sure what your exact question is but introducing the spacer does change the geomtery of the suspension setup. But I have not seen anyone document the actual changes. The space doesn't change the angle of the strut assembly, it just lengthens it - its not like the strut before was at a 12* angle and after its at 15* - its just longer(technically lower from where it was).

2.) The best material is really a matter of opinion. Our HDPE prototypes on 1" spacers have been on an Impreza for almost 2 years now with no issues whatsoever. HDPE has the tensile strength, as I eluded to. 6061 Aluminum is more than strong enough - you could use 5051 if you wanted to. Aluminum - our of box - looks better, its shiny and looks expensive (and is). But once installed you barely see anything. So there is, in my opinion, no bling value so I feel HDPE is the best material since it's cheaper and does exactly the same thing and is absolutely resistant to rust.

3.) Yes - no question. I'd recommend that you mark your camber bolts before you remove them so you know where not to line them up. In my experience, though, with just the spacers, you can max the OEM bolts out and be within the tolerance spec. But yes, you will need an alignment and should not need aftermarket camber bolts unless you've introduced more changes elsewhere.

4.) Can't say for sure - but would make sense given the layout of the vehicle and what its based off.

5.) Yes and no. When I did my spacers, both axle boots ripped within the first year. Granted, these were the original drive axles on a 2002 Impreza with 142k miles on them. Although I've only had one person dispute (not sure I understood his point and no one else in thread agreed or disagreed) my theory on my theory/solution to addressing concerns all the others who have followed my suggestion have not had any problems. That theory/suggestion is to loosen your axle nut when you install your spacers. My theory is that the axle is tightened down when and where the strut assemble is without the spacer. Adding the spacer lowers the knuckle - essentially pulling on the axle, which I believe promotes ripping. Loosing the axle nut gives the axle a chance to reset its position in the knuckle based on the change in geometry.

Hopefully that helps.

[bajaguy]

Thanks!
I was talking about the geometry of the actual spacer. I know some of the taller lifts on the old subies have a twist to project the bolts at a slightly different angle to account for other angle differences. I am wondering if it is as easy as taking a thick piece of aluminum and drilling/cutting it.
Also, this nut you talk about is at the center end of the axle?

[sfeather11]

Hey all. funny I came across this this post. I actually just had an alignment done last week as the last step of my "suspension build" project. Over the past 2-3 years, I've modified my '03 suspension by:
1) swapping '03 springs with '05 springs
2) new grabber AT2 tires all around
3) home made 1" HDPE spacers all around
4) 4-wheel alignment to correct any geometry

Now that is all complete, I'd answer your questions this way...
1) While I fabbed the HDPE spacers myself, the installation was pretty straightforward. no special tools or funky angles req'd. The hardest part is knocking the studs out of your strut top plate and replacing them with an inch longer bolt/nut. The rears are easy, but the front struts were hard to install the new bolts up through the strut top and sheet metal. It took a very flexible friend to hold the bolt up through the hole until we could get a nut strated on it...
2) Would definitely agree with skemcin that HDPE is the way to go. The stuff is easy to work with, cuts like butter, and is tough and durable. Not sure what good tensile strenght does for ya as this spacer is actually under a compression load, but they should last a long, long time. Aluminum just seems like a glity and expensive overkill.
3) While I just had the alignment completed, I expected the camber to be way off (I didn't mark my bolts before I removed them during the install), The camber "after" results were quite close! I think I just got lucky when I re-installed them, but they werent too far off. My rear toe-in was the largest adjustment that needed to be made...
4) You get to the rear suspension behind the seat. Pop off the panel that surrounds the pass-through and you will the the bolts on the top/sides...
5) No trouble so far with increased angles. I do need a front driver axle, but this is due to an inner boot tear I have not addressed in about 6-8 months!

Hope this helps, Peace!

[Takaaco]

Hey all. funny I came across this this post. I actually just had an alignment done last week as the last step of my "suspension build" project. Over the past 2-3 years, I've modified my '03 suspension by:
1) swapping '03 springs with '05 springs
2) new grabber AT2 tires all around
3) home made 1" HDPE spacers all around
4) 4-wheel alignment to correct any geometry

Now that is all complete, I'd answer your questions this way...
1) While I fabbed the HDPE spacers myself, the installation was pretty straightforward. no special tools or funky angles req'd. The hardest part is knocking the studs out of your strut top plate and replacing them with an inch longer bolt/nut. The rears are easy, but the front struts were hard to install the new bolts up through the strut top and sheet metal. It took a very flexible friend to hold the bolt up through the hole until we could get a nut strated on it...
2) Would definitely agree with skemcin that HDPE is the way to go. The stuff is easy to work with, cuts like butter, and is tough and durable. Not sure what good tensile strenght does for ya as this spacer is actually under a compression load, but they should last a long, long time. Aluminum just seems like a glity and expensive overkill.
3) While I just had the alignment completed, I expected the camber to be way off (I didn't mark my bolts before I removed them during the install), The camber "after" results were quite close! I think I just got lucky when I re-installed them, but they werent too far off. My rear toe-in was the largest adjustment that needed to be made...
4) You get to the rear suspension behind the seat. Pop off the panel that surrounds the pass-through and you will the the bolts on the top/sides...
5) No trouble so far with increased angles. I do need a front driver axle, but this is due to an inner boot tear I have not addressed in about 6-8 months!

Hope this helps, Peace!

You have any before / after pictures?
were th springs the only thing you had to replace? not the struts?

[bajaguy]

Thanks guys for giving your input! ..one question. Where did you get the blocks of HDPE and how big (approximately) does it need to be?

[sfeather11]

Hey there,
It's been 2-3 years now, but I I think I bought the HDPE sheet from this company:
http://www.iplasticsupply.com/materials ... sheet-rod/
If you search Google for "HDPE sheet", you'll come across a few other places...

As for size of the sheet, I think I was able to fit all 4 spacers out of a 12"x12", but you'll have to layout the parts before you order the plastic. For my project I laid out all the spacers in a Autocad file in the tightest area I could, printed out the file to scale (so 1 inch on the paper actually measured one inch. I then just used some spray adhesive to glue the paper template over the hdpe sheet and cut out the spacers on a ban saw (you could use a scroll saw as well, if you had a blade long enough).

I'll try to attach the drawing (dwg) files I have from a while ago. I can't open them at home anymore because I no longer have access to Autocad or Solidworks, but if you do, you should see the layout I used before I ordered the sheet. If it doesn't work here, send me a pm and I'll email them to ya...

NOTE: I just tried uploading to no avail (It wont attach dwg or ppt files. Send me a pm and I'll email them...

Takaaco post reminded me that I did forget to mention that I did in fact replace the rear struts, but only because the welding that holds the spring perch to the shocks broke on at one corner when I was going over a RR track one day (That's what started this whole project! I figured since I had to replace the strut, might as well upgrade the springs!). I did NOT replace the front struts, and have not had any concerns. I think the part #s are different for all for struts for the '03s vs the '04/5s, and they probably should be swapped also, but I'll wait til they wear out to replace them now...

Peace!

[sfeather11]

I just returned your pm...

By the way, I was just in Pep boys over the weekend and found that they have drawers and drawers of press fit studs in their fastener aisle. I wish I would've know this before I did mine! These would be a tremendous help when re-installing the strut after you add the spacer. If you could find a 1" longer stud that would fit into the holes in the top strut plate, you could press them in before you try to re-install the strut. Then you would not need to fish a bolt up through the sheet metal and hold it tight while someone captures the top with a nut. The rears weren't too bad, but the fronts were really tough to get to in a few places...

Peace!