In dire straits..please advise

[Bluffman]

Hello all,

It's been awhile since I've been on but now I'm in a pickle and need your advice on my 2005 Baja. A few days ago my engine light and cruise control both came on with the cruise control flashing. Symptoms included a loss of power when I would accelerate along with a "shreel sound" under the hood. The car would also stall on occasion when I came to a stop.

I carried it to a local mechanic who has worked on Subbies in the past. After some investigating, he seemed to point to the Service bulletin 02-103-07. It was odd as I regularly keep my maintenance checks on schedule and have hit all checks from when I bought it with 43K miles. From what I found online, the service bulletin deals with the oil filter screen becoming clogged up in the oil feed banjo bolt at the cylinder head. He also indicated that the turbo could be approaching it's final days as well. Currently I have 144K miles on the Baja.

I asked him if there was any other alternative that might forgo major work (even if its a long shot). One alternative that was suggested and was tried was to do a oil flush and change which cost me approximately $400 (wasn't too pleased with that). This seemed to have worked as there was no engine light and flashing cruise and the mechanic said the turbo was running fine. He told me to let him know if I wanted to go ahead and put in a new turbo.

The next day arrives and I notice while taking a break at work that I am now having major exhaust coming out from the pipe. I call the mechanic to let him know the new problem but end up having to leave a message for him to call me back ASAP..well...he doesn't call me back. At this point, I'm a bit ticked off so I end up taking it for a second look by another mechanic in the area who was highly recommend by family.

The verdict from mechanic #2: "without breaking everything apart, it looks like you have blown a head gasket....oils is pouring into the motor and the turbo isn't looking too good".

What would your next course of action be? New engine and new turbo....talk about expense...mechanic said he could put a new engine in but would cost around $5,400 not including the turbo. Where online can I find a new engine....turbo.....any suggestions? Is it worth taking it to the Subaru dealership (I know I'll get raked)?

I do know though my local Subaru place has told me that they are always looking for Bajas, especially turbo and to let them know if I ever decide to trade (of course wouldn't be expecting a whole lot in this condition).

Any help would be greatly appreciated....

Thanks guys...

[SVO1]

Location?

With the heavy exhaust ( I assume you mean smoke) is the Baja still running ok or overheating?

If a turbo seal fails it can cause it to smoke heavily (looks like a jet trail). I would recommend a compression test/leakdown test to verify that the shortblock/heads are ok. If you have the ability pull the intercooler off and look for signs of oil in it. I have also seen turbos on other Brands that have pumped coolant from the center section into the intake side of things.
These are the basics I would start with before spending any money on anything. Sadly to a lot of shop/techs turbo engines (and Boxer engines) are like some form of voodoo.

[Bluffman]

Thanks for the response....

I'm in the north Alabama - middle TN area (Huntsville AL - Chattanooga TN)

Yes, smoke....still runs okay, no overheating but when I'm idle there's a lot of white smoke coming out of the pipe and I have noticed a bit from under the hood.

I'll start with that....great info.....

[SVO1]

No problem. Was hoping you were closer to me, I could have you bring it to my shop and I could look at it for ya. ( I'm in eastern Iowa)

After you check those things let me know what you find. I'll do my best to help ya. and as I don;t make it on the forums everyday, I will pm ya my shop e-mail

[WillGT]

If you would be willing to transport your Baja to Atlanta I know of 2 good places to take it.
1 being 6 star Subaru which is an independent shop, the guys there have been great for me. They can do pretty much any Subaru repair
The other Ill have to find my paperwork, but when I had my Jeep I had to replace the engine on it as well. The shop I took it to charged around $4000 for a new/rebuilt motor and labor.

Obviously do the compression test first, Im wondering also if the seals and gaskets can be replaced without having to replace the motor.
Then you might want to check around and see if you can find a used motor as another option

[SVO1]

If it needs head gaskets they can be replaced, it does involve pulling the engine (which is really pretty easy on a subie) and then the work is done on a bench or stand. replacing the gaskets and having the heads checked would be substantially less than the $5400 the OP was quoted. And in all honesty a shop that is recommending to replace the engine do to a possible head gasket should not be walked away from, you should run!

[Bluffman]

SV01: Wish I was closer..very nice of you to offer. I'll keep you updated. Time is really of the essence.

Thanks WillGT. Atlanta huh? About 3 hours away....Let me check into costs.

Update: I went by and spoke with the 2nd mechanic. Very honest and upfront guy....didn't charge me anything and said I could store the Baja there as long as I needed until I made my decision.

He said he didn't do a lot of extensive testing but certainly could if I wanted to move forward. He did feel oil was getting into the engine but would be happy to check the seals, do the tests, etc...

SV01, I get your comment about the voodoo, as I could tell he hadn't had the most experience with the turbo engines and he wasn't really trying to cover that up. In the chance that a new engine was needed, he tried finding me another engine but could only find a used one with 80K miles on it which was going to run over 3K for engine alone. He said he has never had such a hard time finding one. He did find a rebuilt turbo for around $1,200.

If it came to needing a new engine, are these engines still available to buy as a complete rebuild (if I'm saying that right) and if not, are there any good places to look for a lower miled one?

In the meantime, I may just have him do the above checks and hope that replacement can be averted.

Thanks,

Bobby

[SVO1]

IIRC you can get a new shortblock from subaru for about $1800. That was from when I priced out an STI shortblock for a project car a while back. In my opinion from what you have said and not being able to lay eyes on it, I'm going to lean towards turbo failure. The noise/loss of power you had in the beginning, and all the smoke.
Normally if a headgasket or ring/piston has broken to the point of heavy smoke, it's going to not be running very well, and will usually trigger a CEL for a misfire.
I have seen one Subaru that broke this normality, it was an STI that had a cracked piston/broken ring and had low compression in one cylinder, but it ran fine. However it only would puff the slightest bit of oil at startup, so slight the owner did not notice it until another club member mentioned it. This car however is not stock and is autocrossed regularly.

If that shop pulls the intercooler, and can pull the inlet tube off of the turbo they can see if there is evidence of oil, if the wheel has hit the housing, and also check for excessive play in the turbo bearings. They can also drop the down pipe to look for evidence of oil.

I have seen many cars get new engines, or junked because of a bad turbo. If your shop has any questions you can give him my e-mail that I pm'd you if he would like to ask me anything.

[SVO1]

also $1200 for a rebuilt stock turbo is very very high. if a Turbo is needed check around. yours may still be able to be rebuilt if the wheel hasn't hit the housing (if it is what has failed)

[Bluffman]

Thanks again for all of your help. My mechanic went in and checked in more details. He said the motor was in real good condition (even with 144k miles on it) but the turbo was the cause of the problem. He called Subaru to order a new turbo, which should be here on Monday; cost is $1,200 + a few hours of labor.

The only potential issue which was quite interesting was that the guy he spoke with at Subaru said they had had put in about 3 of these new turbos in over the last year or so and that the engines of the respected vehicles ended up having to be replaced. He said they couldn't really figure it out but somehow after installing the new turbo, debris was getting into the engine and causing enough damage to destroy the engine. I could of swore he mentioned metallic debris of some type as the culprit. Bottom line, they could certainly sell us the new turbo but he did have to warn us about the problem.

I'll post back how things turn out.

[Hawk296]

Sounds like a turbo in need of replacement. If you had not complied with the service bulletin mentioned previously than there is a good chance that is it. The service bulletin was in regards to a filter screen inside the banjo bolt of the turbocharger oil feed line. If it gets clogged up it starves the turbocharger of oil and destroys it.

If the turbo has failed in a bad way, those metallic particles from the turbocharger will find their way back into the oil system, This could result in engine failure completely. When you remove the oil filter cut it open and see how bad it looks.

These engines have also been known to crack ring lands on the pistons. This will cause lower compression and smoking at startup.

What code was pulled when the check engine light came on?

[STI2NR]

This right here is the perfect opportunity to do an STI swap, 6 speed tranny and all. If I were you I would do it.

[optikul81]

Definately check the banjo bolt! Pointless to install a brand new turbo if the filter is clogged. You will end up with another bad turbo! I just recently checked the filters on mine and found for the most part they were pretty clean but had some tiny tiny pieces in them. Too small to see if it was plastic or metal parts. I just bought new filters and replaced them. Some say to take the filters out completely but that's up to you.

$1,200 for a new turbo sounds a little high. For the mileage on your car I would shop around for a USED TD04 turbo which can be had on craigslist and Ebay for under $300. I personally will be selling mine soon *wink* as I just acquired a VF-39 off an STI to swap mine with.

As for the metallic parts.. those more than likely will be parts from the Up pipe CAT which is notorious for coming apart. I thought I had a blown turbo a couple months ago because I had very little power on my Baja until I took the turbo off and noticed some small metallic honeycomb pieces wedged in my turbo. Strangely enough there was no damage to the turbo *scratching head*. Put the turbo back on and it is working great! No shaftplay...


Hope my ramblings help somewhat.


Chris

[bluffman7]

Chris and STI2NR: I just noticed you replied to my thread and I do appreciate that. I had not checked it after the problem was resolved.

STI2NR: Definitely an idea. I was pretty much in survival mode and just wanted to get my baby back..hahaha.

My mechanic ended up checking the turbo and it was pretty well gone at that point...no hope to bring her back

So far after about 13K additional miles on the new turbo, I've had nothing but smooth sailing.

Chris: I would have certainly been interested but just in a time crunch and having tried to find a good used one, came up empty. Maybe I just didn't have the right resources at the time.

I'm hoping now I can get a second life out of my motor. I'm closing in on 160K and thought she's not what she used to be (bought the car with 43K), my mechanic was quite impressed given the miles on it at the time. As he was replacing the turbo, he took the motor apart and cleaned it up thoroughly. I can't stress enough keeping the oil changed on these turbos.

I've got a little money in it now..upgraded rotors and brakes and the brand new turbo, but I have debated about looking for a lower mileage Baja. In 3 years, I have put approximately 114K on her and I so I feel in that short period of time nothing but praise for this vehicle. Oh..and she is paid for now...whewwww.

One final note: I can't say enough about SVO1 (Jay) who really offered his time and kindness to walk me through this and also with my local mechanic. The Baja family is something special. Thank you.

Oh..btw...I had to get a new account. For some reason my old screen name and pass weren't recognized anymore.

All the best.

Bobby