Catalytic Converter choices!

[SoobyToo58]

I'm looking to replace my Catalytic Converter and the price range for available choices is huge.
(The Baja really has two Catalytic Converters that come as one single unit mounted at both ends of the center exhaust pipe!)

I'm also looking to replace my two Oxygen Sensors

I see some Catalytic Converters available on eBay for as low as $89.69 with the highest price being for an OEM Subaru part for $1,672.40.
After initial searches I see;
At rockauto.com prices of $343.79, $369.79 & $907.79.
At NAPA a price of $1,230.00.
At AutoZone prices of $923.99 & $1154.99.
At AdvanceAuto prices of about $760 up to about $1100.

I only know how Catalytic Converters work but I know nothing about any quality and performance differences between those made by different manufacturers and the price range available seems absolutely crazy to me.
I want to get a good quality part that will last a very long time. I don't plan on getting rid of my Baja at all. I'm 63 years old and I plan on having it until I'm no longer around.
Everything else being equal, price is always very important but everything else is rarely equal!
Can anyone help me to make a choice or give me first hand knowledge that will help me make a good choice for a Catalytic Converter?
I'm also looking for the same information regarding the two Oxygen Sensors because there seems to be a wide price variability for those as well!

[firebanex]

The consensus from everyone I talked to last year when I had my catalyst replaced on my 06 baja was to stick with OEM. All the subaru shops in town said the same thing about staying away from anything but OEM as it would cause more issues rather than fix them. The line was "Subaru is rather particular with Catalysts and doesnt play well with aftermarket". I was told that by the dealer of course but also from two other independent subaru focused shops, and from a friend who works at a Nissan dealership. Mind you, I'm in Alaska so prices are higher all around. I believe I paid about $3k for the cat, labor, and a couple random exhaust hangers to have it done at a shop.

I think I did lower o2 sensor on mine last summer.. I don't think I went for OEM. If I recall correctly, my conclusion at the time was that it mattered less on the o2 sensor. So I think I got a Denso sensor from O'Reillys.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[SoobyToo58]

Thanks for taking the time to respond!
After seeing a few YouTube videos about Catalytic Converters, what I've gathered is that there are after market converters available that are hugely less expansive than OEM ones probably because they're not built as well but more importantly they don't have as much of the different expensive metals and whatever else there is inside that makes up the actual catalyst itself. Those "catalyst ingredients" seem to be the major part of the high cost of the whole converter.
From what I understand, because it treats exhausts gasses using a catalyst. A catalyst, by definition, helps in causing a chemical change without actually changing itself so it's a "passive" system that should last almost forever... or at least the catalyst ingredients should last forever. (The other parts of the converter are nothing but an exhaust pipe and a chamber to hold the "catalyst ingredients"!)
They can get less effective when the engine misfires for a long period of time or if it burns oil and/or has a coolant system leak into the cylinders both of which would release unburned "by products" into the exhaust gasses which would kind of clog the catalysts inside the converter. The converter gets less affective over time at catalyzing the exhaust gasses like it should.
My Baja was misfiring for a while but that problem's been fixed. It was only a few weeks after getting it fixed that my "Check Engine" light came on and the code was related to the converter. Since I didn't know how to diagnose the vehicle I brought it to a mechanic who told me I need a new converter and the two O2 sensors. The malfunctioning O2 sensors also make sense. They're probably burned up or got clogged themselves from the unburned and foreign by products in the exhaust gasses.
Having learned all that, I'm thinking that it might be worthwhile to get a used converter off a vehicle at the junkyard. Getting a used converter is something of a gamble but what are the chances that one from a salvaged vehicle would have had the same problem that mine had?
What are your thoughts on that score?

Does anyone else have any thoughts on that?

[Guacamole]

Why are you replacing the Cats in the first place? Leave that s@#% alone if it's not throwing 02 codes lest you be chasing P0420 codes until doomsday.
It's a bigger headache to replace than having a pipe that's full of holes. If you want to replace the exhaust because of leaks/rust, just do cat-back: viewtopic.php?p=21224#p21224).
Headers and cats are bolted directly to the engine and unibody respectively- if those 8 bolts fail then you've swamped your baja in saltwater for 6 months and you've got bigger problems to worry about. The cats' and headers' position makes them well-protected from the tires splashing up debris unless you purposefully drive through puddles. Nearly all the dirt, mud, water, etc kicked up by the front tires hits the resonator pipe flex joint and downward. Really the only exhaust parts to worry about are the flex joint rearward.

[firebanex]

In my particular case, I had about 18 months worth of intermittent p0420 codes mixed with p1443 evap codes, a couple o2 sensor codes, and the weird starting behavior I posted a thread about. I eventually figured out the o2 sensor had failed as well (aka I finally learned how to read what the live data was telling me about it) replaced the o2 sensor. Then finally got to talk to a couple mechanic friends and a shop to diagnose the catalyst as actually being non functional at this point in it's life. All of the p0420 codes went away with the cat replacement and I finally found and fixed the issue with the evap system a two months ago. So far, I've had zero issues or codes since then.

It may not have helped that I bought the car at 50k miles and didn't replace the spark plugs until somewhere around 120k miles. Turns out those are a 30k mile item.. Just replaced them again at 150k this summer.

My suspicion is that it was a combination of the evap system having multiple slow failings (gas cap, charcoal canister, and the duty solenoid), my mistake with the spark plug replacement interval, and that caused the engine to not burn as clean as it should for a couple of years plus the age of the catalyst that finally did it in. I could be wrong, but it all seems to add up when it was having issues for at least 18 months and probably more as it came on pretty slow.

On the plus side, the head gaskets haven't started leaking. *knock on wood*

[SoobyToo58]

Why are you replacing the Cats in the first place? Leave that s@#% alone if it's not throwing 02 codes lest you be chasing P0420 codes until doomsday.
It's a bigger headache to replace than having a pipe that's full of holes. If you want to replace the exhaust because of leaks/rust, just do cat-back: viewtopic.php?p=21224#p21224).
Headers and cats are bolted directly to the engine and unibody respectively- if those 8 bolts fail then you've swamped your baja in saltwater for 6 months and you've got bigger problems to worry about. The cats' and headers' position makes them well-protected from the tires splashing up debris unless you purposefully drive through puddles. Nearly all the dirt, mud, water, etc kicked up by the front tires hits the resonator pipe flex joint and downward. Really the only exhaust parts to worry about are the flex joint rearward.

Hey Guacamole!
I'm glad you chimed in here. I've conversed with you a few times in the past and I've always valued what you had to say. You talk intelligently about whatever subject we're talking about and you're very analytical in your approach to problems.
So, here's your answer.
For a long time I had a misfire code in one cylinder (an 0302 code if i remember correctly) and made too many assumptions about what the cause was. I assumed there might be oil and/or coolant leaking into the cylinder and just had that idea stuck in my head. I thought that if that was the problem I just didn't have the resources to fix it correctly by a mechanic or even by myself so every 800 to 1000 miles when the misfire got to the point that the vehicle was hard to drive (poor acceleration, dangerous acceleration lag and so on) I would clean the spark plug, clear the code and just keep going.
I was obviously sticking my head in the sand.
Engine performance degraded faster and faster over time so I broke down and brought it to a friends trusted mechanic. Well, I felt like a real jackass after that because it turned out that the problem was just a damn spark plug wire. It never occurred to me that that could be the cause of the problem because I had replaced the wires about less than 2 years before.
I've heard the advice before that you should always check the simplest and most common possible causes first when trying to find the cause of a problem but that never entered my mind during all this other than I thought that it couldn't be the wires because they're relatively new.
Stupidly, I went a long time time with this problem before getting it corrected. I don't recall exactly how long but maybe more than a year.
That brings me to the converter. The new spark plug wire fixed the misfire but very recently I got a P0420 code. I saw it was converter related so I had a mechanic diagnose it and I was told I need a new converter and both O2 sensors replaced.
My assumption is that having driven for so long with that misfire before getting it corrected burned out both O2 sensors and fouled up my converter so bad that it's now useless.

Installing a converter is not my problem. I'm assuming that I could do it as long as there's no welding involved.
My problem is deciding on which one to buy. I'm starting to think that the higher priced ones ARE the better bet but I don't really feel that I've gathered enough factual information to be really sure. I feel like I'm still pissing in the dark here.
Just now I was looking at two converters through NAPA. They're both for an 05 Baja SOHC (my vehicle) and they're both an exact physical replacement for the original which means there would be no welding involved.

MagnaFlow Heavy Metal Catalytic Converter Part # MAG 93235 Price $1,030.00
and
MagnaFlow OEM Grade Catalytic Converter Part # MAG 49490 Price $1,230.00

There are others from Advance Auto and other chain parts dealers that are in the same general price range.

That kind of money is a real problem for me BUT I need to get it done soon (yearly inspection is looming soon) but I'll spend the money if that's the only way to get it done right which for me means that I wont have to replace the converter for a very long time.

I've valued what you've had to say in the past so I'd like to know what you think and why as far as deciding which converter to buy.
Thanks Guacamole!

If anybody else wants to add something, I'd like to hear it!
.

[Guacamole]

Was this mechanic a general mechanic or someone who specializes in subies and/or exhausts? The uninformed mech will tell you you need both because P0420 codes are a PITA and it's safer/less work to deal with if both are replaced, that way you don't have to chase down the P0420 code (which also can get thrown if your gas tank cap isn't sealing). The massive risk with this is if it doesn't solve the P0420 code and you're now out $2k.

I know I'm late on this, but I would try resetting the ECU now that the misfire is solved before dropping that kind of cash- it may just need to "re learn" the exhaust system now that it's not screwy, and it's detecting something is off.
Also keep an OBII reader handy (they can be bought at Autozone for like $50), clear the code, then time how long it takes to come back. If it's instant, could be similar to what I had last year: there's a metal line that goes around the gas tank and is there to detect pressure in the gas tank and gas cap, mine was rusted out and split in half. P0420 code came back instantly after clearing until the line was spliced back together. I can't remember what the line's proper name was or if I saved the picture unfortunately. My cats are still the originals from the factory back in 2006 and I have not [yet] had to replace the 02 sensors despite headgasket failure at 216k, radiator failure at 232k, the original factory spark plugs in it for 200k miles, and piston 1 slapping like a MF ever since I've owned the car [2nd owner] (goes away once warmed so hey-ho).

[SoobyToo58]

Was this mechanic a general mechanic or someone who specializes in subies and/or exhausts? The uninformed mech will tell you you need both because P0420 codes are a PITA and it's safer/less work to deal with if both are replaced, that way you don't have to chase down the P0420 code (which also can get thrown if your gas tank cap isn't sealing). The massive risk with this is if it doesn't solve the P0420 code and you're now out $2k.

I know I'm late on this, but I would try resetting the ECU now that the misfire is solved before dropping that kind of cash- it may just need to "re learn" the exhaust system now that it's not screwy, and it's detecting something is off.
Also keep an OBII reader handy (they can be bought at Autozone for like $50), clear the code, then time how long it takes to come back. If it's instant, could be similar to what I had last year: there's a metal line that goes around the gas tank and is there to detect pressure in the gas tank and gas cap, mine was rusted out and split in half. P0420 code came back instantly after clearing until the line was spliced back together. I can't remember what the line's proper name was or if I saved the picture unfortunately. My cats are still the originals from the factory back in 2006 and I have not [yet] had to replace the 02 sensors despite headgasket failure at 216k, radiator failure at 232k, the original factory spark plugs in it for 200k miles, and piston 1 slapping like a MF ever since I've owned the car [2nd owner] (goes away once warmed so hey-ho).

Well my friend, the bottom line is you don't owe me anything. Any of your input that enables me to get closer to solving the problem correctly is all gravy so better late than never. I'm always looking to learn something new, especially if it will save me money so, again, I'm grateful for your response.
I actually bought a Cat. Converter and have the 2 sensors on order. I was planning to install them all next weekend but I can wait another week and check things out with your advice. I can always return the parts.
The mechanic was a Pep Boys mechanic because my assumption was that, since they are a big name chain, they might be better technically equipped to make a correct diagnosis. I don't actually know how experienced their mechanics are. I have an old school older mechanic but he rarely does work for me other than state inspections.
Usually I pick his brain and fix everything myself but I've been leaning on him too much lately for advice and technical know how and though he always says he's happy to give me advice I don't want to overstay my welcome so to speak so I took a gamble with Pep Boys. I know very well it's not ideal but I've worked my ass off my whole life and I'm still struggling so I don't like to take advantage of hard working good intentioned people like my mechanic.
I'll try clearing the code and see happens like you recommend. I've had an OBII reader for a few years now.

Will the ECU actually "relearn" a new situation? Also, the "Check engine" light and P0420 code popped up soon, but not immediately, after the misfire situation was fixed so does that mean anything to you?

I have no clue how to reset the ECU. Can you walk me through that?
Should I clear the code BEFORE resetting the ECU or should I reset the ECU first?

BTW, I have a Subaru Factory Tech Manual for Subaru mechanics and it's been real helpful to me in the past. It's specific to the Legacy and the Baja. Could you use a copy? It covers everything. You've been so helpful so I'd like to get you a copy if you could use it. My way of saying Thank You!

[Guacamole]

The mechanic was a Pep Boys mechanic because my assumption was that, since they are a big name chain, they might be better technically equipped to make a correct diagnosis. I don't actually know how experienced their mechanics are.

Most of the time they have zero idea what they're doing (in my experience). All they do is read a How-To-101 manual to diagnose- they don't specialize in anything and I wouldn't trust them to change my oil. A service manual, even the manufacturer's, will only get you so far as there's quirks and signals that even the manufacturers don't know about. Sometimes even the dealership techs are just as bad, or worse (I know more about the Baja than my local Subaru dealership service tech). I'm a gunsmith by trade, and let me tell you there is no manual out there, not even a US MIL-issued one, that will explain why on two identical M1911s in sequential serial number one will reliably feed hollow points and the other will not out of the same magazine: only experience in dealing with them will lead you to the answer. The same goes for auto mechanics (which I am not, I HATE actually working on cars and will not touch anything engine-related, but I do my best to diagnose before going to the mechanic)- specialization cannot be taught, only learned by doing by someone who is committed to the discipline.
Also take everything I'm posting (along with everyone else) with a grain of salt, not as gospel and verify yourself- at the end of the day I'm just some rando on the internet giving their opinion. I do not have the full picture on what exactly you are dealing with here and am only giving advice based on what I [claim to] know.

Will the ECU actually "relearn" a new situation? Also, the "Check engine" light and P0420 code popped up soon, but not immediately, after the misfire situation was fixed so does that mean anything to you?

Sometimes yes, if the code was thrown in "error" from the computer basically detecting [beep boop something not right]. Computers are stupid and don't actually "diagnose" anything, they just run a set program and check if reading from sensor A is within [set range]. Same reason you should periodically turn your phone off every so often (or remove the battery if possible)- resets the temporary memory and clears accumulated junk data clutter.

I have no clue how to reset the ECU. Can you walk me through that?
Should I clear the code BEFORE resetting the ECU or should I reset the ECU first?

Clear code before reset, it will be stored in the physical memory otherwise.
Video guide: https://youtu.be/OUjMh45d6I8
NASIOC guide: https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71783

BTW, I have a Subaru Factory Tech Manual for Subaru mechanics and it's been real helpful to me in the past. It's specific to the Legacy and the Baja. Could you use a copy? It covers everything.

Have it saved already on two hard drives, they're also hosted on https://jdmfsm.info/Auto/, but thank you.

[petroben]

Hey,

Navigating the world of Catalytic Converters and Oxygen Sensors can be daunting with the wide price range. Quality matters, and considering your plan to keep the Baja long-term, it's crucial.

Some community members swear by [mention any specific brand/model recommended by the community], known for durability. Check reviews and consider warranties. As for Oxygen Sensors, [mention any insights or recommendations].

Here's to many more miles with your Baja!

Best,
[petroben]

[SoobyToo58]

The mechanic was a Pep Boys mechanic because my assumption was that, since they are a big name chain, they might be better technically equipped to make a correct diagnosis. I don't actually know how experienced their mechanics are.

Most of the time they have zero idea what they're doing (in my experience). All they do is read a How-To-101 manual to diagnose- they don't specialize in anything and I wouldn't trust them to change my oil. A service manual, even the manufacturer's, will only get you so far as there's quirks and signals that even the manufacturers don't know about. Sometimes even the dealership techs are just as bad, or worse (I know more about the Baja than my local Subaru dealership service tech). I'm a gunsmith by trade, and let me tell you there is no manual out there, not even a US MIL-issued one, that will explain why on two identical M1911s in sequential serial number one will reliably feed hollow points and the other will not out of the same magazine: only experience in dealing with them will lead you to the answer. The same goes for auto mechanics (which I am not, I HATE actually working on cars and will not touch anything engine-related, but I do my best to diagnose before going to the mechanic)- specialization cannot be taught, only learned by doing by someone who is committed to the discipline.
Also take everything I'm posting (along with everyone else) with a grain of salt, not as gospel and verify yourself- at the end of the day I'm just some rando on the internet giving their opinion. I do not have the full picture on what exactly you are dealing with here and am only giving advice based on what I [claim to] know.

Will the ECU actually "relearn" a new situation? Also, the "Check engine" light and P0420 code popped up soon, but not immediately, after the misfire situation was fixed so does that mean anything to you?

Sometimes yes, if the code was thrown in "error" from the computer basically detecting [beep boop something not right]. Computers are stupid and don't actually "diagnose" anything, they just run a set program and check if reading from sensor A is within [set range]. Same reason you should periodically turn your phone off every so often (or remove the battery if possible)- resets the temporary memory and clears accumulated junk data clutter.

I have no clue how to reset the ECU. Can you walk me through that?
Should I clear the code BEFORE resetting the ECU or should I reset the ECU first?

Clear code before reset, it will be stored in the physical memory otherwise.
Video guide: https://youtu.be/OUjMh45d6I8
NASIOC guide: https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71783

BTW, I have a Subaru Factory Tech Manual for Subaru mechanics and it's been real helpful to me in the past. It's specific to the Legacy and the Baja. Could you use a copy? It covers everything.

Have it saved already on two hard drives, they're also hosted on https://jdmfsm.info/Auto/, but thank you.

Regarding the Pep Boys mechanics and Subaru dealership mechanics and other mechanics working for the chains like Midas and GoodYear I have always thought exactly that. That's why I said that they might be better technically equipped to make a correct diagnosis but that I don't actually know how experienced their mechanics are. What I meant was that they might have more up to date scanning/diagnostic type of equipment which might possibly be helpful in getting to the real root of the problem but I didn't' have any personal experience with any of their mechanics. Being 64 years old I know from life experience that it takes some time to get a feel for a mechanic to know if he's got talent or not.
I don't think my mechanic has the know how to get to the root of this problem so I chose not to ask him about it or insult him by even mentioning it to him. He's good at other problems but probably not this.
To me, a talented mechanic is like a talented doctor. The most important talent is their diagnostic skills. Having that, everything else they do is secondary. In my mind only a good diagnostician with a good mechanical sense and talent deserves to have the title "Mechanic". Those others are just "technicians" who, like you said, just do things by rote with the help of a factory manual and diagnostic guide. They just follow instructions step by step.
I brought the Baja to the dealership soon after I bought it because one of my taillights was working intermittently. Except for the most basic of problems, I have no talent for diagnosing electrical problems. I first changed the bulbs which didn't fix it and then removed the taillight to check continuity on every wire and connector in the small taillight wiring harness itself. THAT also wasn't the problem so after that I couldn't do anymore myself and brought it to the dealership.
I had a trusted mechanic for the past few years who had closed his shop because he was going blind so I didn't have a mechanic I knew to bring it to. He had three mechanics working for him, one of which was really talented but I couldn't find him after the shop was closed.
I was charged almost $700 by Subaru which was all a labor charge and it turned out to be a short circuit in the male connector from the vehicle wiring harness that connects directly to the taillight harness. They told me they started by checking the wiring starting from the fuse box in the front of the vehicle and worked their way back until they ended up at the rear of the vehicle where they located the problem. I was crazy angry and asked why they didn't start from the taillight and work their way forward but now I don't even remember what stupid nonsensical answer I got.
The bill was actually higher than the $700 they charged me but they reduced it after they saw how pissed off I was. I think they actually spent about 5 hours trying to get to the problem.
After that, I determined to never let them actually do any work on my vehicle. I have brought it to them to diagnose a steering problem which turned out to be a steering rack gone bad and I just paid them for the time and replaced the damn thing myself.
Very soon after replacing the steering rack I noticed it needed an alignment which my mechanic doesn't do so I brought it to Midas. They put it up on the rack and called me in and showed m a bent rear link and said it would be extra to remove it because they had to cut off the bolts with a torch. The link was very badly crushed up from underneath. That ended up costing an additional $350 bucks more or less.
I had taken a bunch photos of the whole rear suspension and all that when I replaced both of my rear bearings only a few months before replacing the steering rack. I checked my photos and there was my rear link in perfect shape with not even a dent in it. It's made from super heavy gauge stamped steel. The only way for me to have bent it would have been to have run over about a 16 inch boulder or actually dropping the vehicle onto a 16 inch boulder. In either case I wouldn't have been able to drive away because the vehicle would have been stuck on the boulder with the wheel off the ground. The only way the link could have been crushed was if Subaru had placed the lift arms incorrectly before lifting on the rack it when they were checking into my steering problem or maybe they drove over a huge boulder when test driving it.
I called them and told them about it and said I wanted to be reimbursed for my repair expense and was basically told they didn't do it and they couldn't possibly have done it and they wouldn't pay for anything.
I'm very friendly with two of their parts guys so they're the only ones I ever talk to when I have a parts question. They know I fix almost everything myself and they understand that finances are a problem so they're always willing to answer my questions even though I've rarely bought parts from them.

Got to go to work now but I'll look into the rest of your response later.

I thank you for your time and attention!
You're a good man Charlie Brown!