To Rebuild or To Buy a Reman 2.5 NA

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To Rebuild or To Buy a Reman 2.5 NA

Post by a_cmc_2b »

Which would be the best choice for the money spent.

1. Rebuild the 2.5 NA ?

OR

2. Purchase a Re-manufactured Engine?
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Re: To Rebuild or To Buy a Reman 2.5 NA

Post by joedavex »

What went wrong with the engine that requires a rebuild?
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Re: To Rebuild or To Buy a Reman 2.5 NA

Post by a_cmc_2b »

" by joedavex » Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:43 pm

What went wrong with the engine that requires a rebuild?"

Right now nothing, my Baja just has a high mileage engine in it and I'd like to know my options in case it goes south on me...
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Re: To Rebuild or To Buy a Reman 2.5 NA

Post by kamesama980 »

a_cmc_2b wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:09 pm " by joedavex » Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:43 pm

What went wrong with the engine that requires a rebuild?"

Right now nothing, my Baja just has a high mileage engine in it and I'd like to know my options in case it goes south on me...
Depends on the quality of work of the person doing the work in either case. Either one can have a very satisfactory or disastrous outcome.
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Re: To Rebuild or To Buy a Reman 2.5 NA

Post by a_cmc_2b »

kamesama980 wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:12 pm
a_cmc_2b wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:09 pm " by joedavex » Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:43 pm

What went wrong with the engine that requires a rebuild?"

Right now nothing, my Baja just has a high mileage engine in it and I'd like to know my options in case it goes south on me...
Depends on the quality of work of the person doing the work in either case. Either one can have a very satisfactory or disastrous outcome.
LOL... Thanks, this was like not actually answering, but with a bunch of words...
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Re: To Rebuild or To Buy a Reman 2.5 NA

Post by ZUBAJA »

What were you looking for? The question you asked is a "6 - half a dozen" question. Who would be doing the work? If you're towing the car to a shop and saying "rebuild this engine", you'd better have a fat wallet - you're paying for R&R, tear down, cleaning, machining, and assembly etc, etc. $$$$$

If you're towing it and say throw in a rebuilt the "rebuilders" usually can turn out the product cheaper than having an individual shop / mechanic do the same work. You're STILL paying for the R&R, and if something goes wrong with the "rebuilt" engine (from rebuilder), you're on the hook again for more R&R labor. Dennis
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Re: To Rebuild or To Buy a Reman 2.5 NA

Post by a_cmc_2b »

ZUBAJA wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:26 pm What were you looking for? The question you asked is a "6 - half a dozen" question. Who would be doing the work? If you're towing the car to a shop and saying "rebuild this engine", you'd better have a fat wallet - you're paying for R&R, tear down, cleaning, machining, and assembly etc, etc. $$$$$

If you're towing it and say throw in a rebuilt the "rebuilders" usually can turn out the product cheaper than having an individual shop / mechanic do the same work. You're STILL paying for the R&R, and if something goes wrong with the "rebuilt" engine (from rebuilder), you're on the hook again for more R&R labor. Dennis
You're reading too much into a simple question, I did not ask about the cost of towing, labor to R&R, etc... I simply asked, of the two options I presented, which was the best value?

Now, I guess if that question needs clarification, Can an individual with the skills required to do all of the labor other than necessary outsourcing of machining, purchase over the counter parts, then build an engine for everyday driving that is, as or more reliable than simply buying a reman engine from a reputable remanufacturer and installing it in place of the original engine?

The goal being to end up with the best built and most reliable reman engine for the least amount of money.
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Re: To Rebuild or To Buy a Reman 2.5 NA

Post by ZUBAJA »

Obviously, Yes. It gets done all the time. The other forum I am involved with is Isuzus (kind of a dying breed). There is a guy on there who initially was apprehensive about changing valve cover gaskets, now he's rebuilt TWO Isuzu 2.6 engines. It can be done. There are a few quirks about the Subaru opposed engines that differ from "conventional" engines. Dennis
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Re: To Rebuild or To Buy a Reman 2.5 NA

Post by a_cmc_2b »

ZUBAJA wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:48 pm Obviously, Yes. It gets done all the time. The other forum I am involved with is Isuzus (kind of a dying breed). There is a guy on there who initially was apprehensive about changing valve cover gaskets, now he's rebuilt TWO Isuzu 2.6 engines. It can be done. There are a few quirks about the Subaru opposed engines that differ from "conventional" engines. Dennis
So does "Obviously, Yes. It gets done all the time." mean it is possible to rebuild the Subaru Engine and have a reliable engine cheaper than just buying a rebuilt engine from a reputable engine rebuilder, or vice versa?

In my neck of the woods we still see more Isuzu's than Subaru's... I have a 2wd Isuzu Amigo that needs more work than I want to put in it, and I will be selling it soon... I keep an eBay Search going and also regularly check a variety of trade sites in an effort to find a Vehicross, as I would like to have one of those to turn into my dedicated Metal Detecting Vehicle... I have no issues with "unconventional" engines, they don't get much more "unconventional" than the Wankel Rotary that powered the 1st, 2nd, & 3rd Generation RX 7's and I owned more than my fair share of 1st & 2nd Gens...
My biggest issue when dealing with these "unconventional" engines/vehicles, is without a local dealer and better yet a diehard group of dedicated enthusiast, I am forced to use forums and Facebook Groups as my primary learning tools, and well this thread alone proves that can be like pulling teeth.
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Re: To Rebuild or To Buy a Reman 2.5 NA

Post by kamesama980 »

a_cmc_2b wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:51 pm So does "Obviously, Yes. It gets done all the time." mean it is possible to rebuild the Subaru Engine and have a reliable engine cheaper than just buying a rebuilt engine from a reputable engine rebuilder, or vice versa?

In my neck of the woods we still see more Isuzu's than Subaru's... I have a 2wd Isuzu Amigo that needs more work than I want to put in it, and I will be selling it soon... I keep an eBay Search going and also regularly check a variety of trade sites in an effort to find a Vehicross, as I would like to have one of those to turn into my dedicated Metal Detecting Vehicle... I have no issues with "unconventional" engines, they don't get much more "unconventional" than the Wankel Rotary that powered the 1st, 2nd, & 3rd Generation RX 7's and I owned more than my fair share of 1st & 2nd Gens...
My biggest issue when dealing with these "unconventional" engines/vehicles, is without a local dealer and better yet a diehard group of dedicated enthusiast, I am forced to use forums and Facebook Groups as my primary learning tools, and well this thread alone proves that can be like pulling teeth.
We keep saying it depends because it does!

"value" implies a monetary aspect, hence the question. Part X at $1 is a better value than part X at $5. but Part X at $1 is worse than part Y at $1. You also specifically said
The goal being to end up with the best built and most reliable reman engine for the least amount of money.


Can an individual make a more reliable engine than a remanufacturer? yes. Will an engine rebuilt by an individual be more reliable than a reman? no way of knowing without knowing who the competitors are.

Who is doing the rebuild matters because different shops and different people do different qualities of work. Part of the reason I do all my own work and have trust issues is because I've worked at shops and dealerships and saw the level of competence present but i know there are some shops that do top quality work. In general, dealerships don't give a rats backside about things old enough to be out of warranty. We don't live in the bygone era of experts staying in one place for decades accumulating knowledge.

There are places that "remanufacture" engines that do good work, there are places that do not.

Rebuilding one specific engine generally (but not always) costs more because it's not done on an assembly line. The trade off is the person working on it generally looks a lot closer than a bored line worker. On the other hand, assembly lines often have consistent processes and QC checks to prevent issues whereas one moment of inattention my a lone rebuilder can miss something important and grenade the engine on startup. IT DEPENDS.

Cost of rebuilding your engine depends on labor rates in your area. Metro area labor rates are 20-50% higher than rural areas. If you "have a buddy", labor could be much cheaper but do you trust him to build for reliability? how about his warranty?

Cost of reman engine depends on what your're getting and who from... short block, long block, complete turn-key engine? Don't forget to factor in shipping.

Rebuilding will also take longer... a few days to a few weeks depending on how busy they are/how devoted to your engine. There also may be a waiting line if you don't give them warning. A reman engine can be swapped in a day if you push it.

Don't insult us by saying it's our fault for being difficult. It's not that we don't want to give a straight answer, god I wish there were more straight answers in life, it's that there is no straight answer. That's like walking into a room and asking everyone there "What car is best for me" without telling anything about yourself or what you want out of it. maybe it's a compact, maybe a van, maybe a full size truck, hell maybe you'd be best off with a bike. Maybe a better analogy would be asking if one NFL team will beat another (without saying which teams are competing). In the grand scheme of things, either will probably outlast your ownership of the vehicle.
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Re: To Rebuild or To Buy a Reman 2.5 NA

Post by a_cmc_2b »

kamesama980 wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:56 am
a_cmc_2b wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:51 pm So does "Obviously, Yes. It gets done all the time." mean it is possible to rebuild the Subaru Engine and have a reliable engine cheaper than just buying a rebuilt engine from a reputable engine rebuilder, or vice versa?

In my neck of the woods we still see more Isuzu's than Subaru's... I have a 2wd Isuzu Amigo that needs more work than I want to put in it, and I will be selling it soon... I keep an eBay Search going and also regularly check a variety of trade sites in an effort to find a Vehicross, as I would like to have one of those to turn into my dedicated Metal Detecting Vehicle... I have no issues with "unconventional" engines, they don't get much more "unconventional" than the Wankel Rotary that powered the 1st, 2nd, & 3rd Generation RX 7's and I owned more than my fair share of 1st & 2nd Gens...
My biggest issue when dealing with these "unconventional" engines/vehicles, is without a local dealer and better yet a diehard group of dedicated enthusiast, I am forced to use forums and Facebook Groups as my primary learning tools, and well this thread alone proves that can be like pulling teeth.
We keep saying it depends because it does!

"value" implies a monetary aspect, hence the question. Part X at $1 is a better value than part X at $5. but Part X at $1 is worse than part Y at $1. You also specifically said
The goal being to end up with the best built and most reliable reman engine for the least amount of money.


Can an individual make a more reliable engine than a remanufacturer? yes. Will an engine rebuilt by an individual be more reliable than a reman? no way of knowing without knowing who the competitors are.

Who is doing the rebuild matters because different shops and different people do different qualities of work. Part of the reason I do all my own work and have trust issues is because I've worked at shops and dealerships and saw the level of competence present but i know there are some shops that do top quality work. In general, dealerships don't give a rats backside about things old enough to be out of warranty. We don't live in the bygone era of experts staying in one place for decades accumulating knowledge.

There are places that "remanufacture" engines that do good work, there are places that do not.

Rebuilding one specific engine generally (but not always) costs more because it's not done on an assembly line. The trade off is the person working on it generally looks a lot closer than a bored line worker. On the other hand, assembly lines often have consistent processes and QC checks to prevent issues whereas one moment of inattention my a lone rebuilder can miss something important and grenade the engine on startup. IT DEPENDS.

Cost of rebuilding your engine depends on labor rates in your area. Metro area labor rates are 20-50% higher than rural areas. If you "have a buddy", labor could be much cheaper but do you trust him to build for reliability? how about his warranty?

Cost of reman engine depends on what your're getting and who from... short block, long block, complete turn-key engine? Don't forget to factor in shipping.

Rebuilding will also take longer... a few days to a few weeks depending on how busy they are/how devoted to your engine. There also may be a waiting line if you don't give them warning. A reman engine can be swapped in a day if you push it.

Don't insult us by saying it's our fault for being difficult. It's not that we don't want to give a straight answer, god I wish there were more straight answers in life, it's that there is no straight answer. That's like walking into a room and asking everyone there "What car is best for me" without telling anything about yourself or what you want out of it. maybe it's a compact, maybe a van, maybe a full size truck, hell maybe you'd be best off with a bike. Maybe a better analogy would be asking if one NFL team will beat another (without saying which teams are competing). In the grand scheme of things, either will probably outlast your ownership of the vehicle.
WOW!!!!!

I had no idea that a simple question about one particular engine, would be so difficult to answer...

You know if you are not a politician, you really should consider giving politics a try, because you have a natural talent at saying so much without ever addressing the actual question that was presented to you...
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Re: To Rebuild or To Buy a Reman 2.5 NA

Post by Reddog »

I guess if that question needs clarification.
Can an individual with the skills required to do all of the labor other than necessary outsourcing of machining, purchase over the counter parts, then build an engine for everyday driving.
Answer: Sure, use Subaru OEM Parts.
Or simply buying a reman engine from a reputable remanufacturer and installing it in place of the original engine?
Answer:Sure, double check what the warranty covers.
Which is more reliable?
Answer: Either too many variables involved as previously described.

Better?
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Re: To Rebuild or To Buy a Reman 2.5 NA

Post by kamesama980 »

a_cmc_2b wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:53 am WOW!!!!!

I had no idea that a simple question about one particular engine, would be so difficult to answer...

You know if you are not a politician, you really should consider giving politics a try, because you have a natural talent at saying so much without ever addressing the actual question that was presented to you...
Sorry, I have a tendency to elaborate when the other party doesn't get it.

I'll now go the other way and distill back down to a few words for each of your questions.
Is it possible for an individual to rebuild an engine to better reliability/longevity than an assembly line remanufacturer?
Yes

Is it possible to do the above at a lower price point?
Yes

How easily, how fast, and the likelihood of whether or not you can find someone to accomplish it we can't even speculate on the odds.

Oh, and lets not forget the even bigger variable: how you treat it after it's installed will have as much effect on the longevity as their quality of work.
-Russell
"You don't get to judge me for how I fix what you break"
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Re: To Rebuild or To Buy a Reman 2.5 NA

Post by ZUBAJA »

a_cmc_2b wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:09 pm Right now nothing, my Baja just has a high mileage engine in it and I'd like to know my options in case it goes south on me...
So define "High mileage engine". Dennis
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Re: To Rebuild or To Buy a Reman 2.5 NA

Post by kamesama980 »

ZUBAJA wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:07 pm
a_cmc_2b wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:09 pm Right now nothing, my Baja just has a high mileage engine in it and I'd like to know my options in case it goes south on me...
So define "High mileage engine". Dennis
Depends, selling new cars, used cars, or parts?
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