Shopping for Baja, choices NA vs Turbo, MT vs AT

General talk about the Subaru Baja.

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outboardr
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Shopping for Baja, choices NA vs Turbo, MT vs AT

Post by outboardr »

Hi all,
I'm shopping for a Baja out by Seattle WA.

I haven't driven one yet as they either sell before I get a chance to travel to them, or run CarFax and find looming hg issues etc. so I pass on them.

I initially thought find a Turbo with auto trans thinking easier to find and drive.
But,,, now I'm thinking I should also be looking at NA, so I'm wondering about daily driving with NA Auto vs Manual, and Turbo Auto vs manual.
(I"m 60 this year, power is nice but condition and reliability more important.)
So....
Some of you guys have driven Turbo in Auto/manual and NA in Auto/manual.

Can you guys share your impressions? Is a NA with auto really gutless for passing or uphills vs the manual, or a wash?
Does the 4 speed auto need to downshift on long uphill grades?
Is the turbo in auto or manual a completely different experience from NA?
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Re: Shopping for Baja, choices NA vs Turbo, MT vs AT

Post by Guacamole »

I can't speak on the Turbos or Manuals... buuuuut my 06 NA AT drives fine around the flat lands of Delmarva. Could it use some more power? Absolutely. I recently took it out to WV over the summer, and she was struggling on the mountains. Speed limit on the highway was 70 and I could barely manage 55 uphill without pushing her. Transmission always jumped down a gear when going up the mountains.
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Re: Shopping for Baja, choices NA vs Turbo, MT vs AT

Post by greymud »

05 NA MT - live in the mountains, and rarely have an issue. I sometimes downshift to 4th up a long grade if I get caught behind a truck or something. Regularly do a 6 mile 6% grade.
05 NA 5MT
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Re: Shopping for Baja, choices NA vs Turbo, MT vs AT

Post by TrentRoogna »

I've had an 06 NA manual for about 8 years now. In that time I've lived in Western MA, SE Michigan, Northern Illinois and Central AZ.

My Baja is a fun car to drive, but it is by no measure a fast or powerful car.

Driving in the mountains in northern AZ I couldn't keep to highway speeds on the uphill without redlining the engine.

Driving on I-80 across the plains I had trouble keeping up when the speed limit was 75 and the traffic went 90.
Often find myself wishing I had a 6th gear.

Around where I live now (Detroit area) it's fine. On the hwy I generally need bigger gaps in traffic if I'm pulling into the fast lane, buy it's not like I can't, just need some courage.

My car/truck/thing is the only Baja I've ever driven, but long ago I had a 99 outback. I've also had two Corollas (an 90s LE an 2010 S) these three cars all auto.

The Baja is the slowest of this list. The quickest was the Corolla S.

As much as it pains me to recommend anything but a baja on the Baja forum, if you need a gutsy vehicle in a hilly region,
This isn't it. Maybe look into the mid-00s up-engined Outbacks or foresters?
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Re: Shopping for Baja, choices NA vs Turbo, MT vs AT

Post by outboardr »

Thanks for the feedback, that helps.
Whether I end up with Turbo or NA, auto or manual will depend on availability.
My cousin's family has a slew of Subaru's, and his daily is a 2001 Forester with automatic.
Less weight than the Baja, and I have to check the gearing, but gotta be somewhat close.
Like you guys have commented, not a performance car but definitely adequate.
Amazing visibility out of that car, there is no blind spot.
I think 220K on it and humming right along with maintenance.

I have a guy with an 06 NA AT (his fourth Baja he told me last night) that is selling as he is older now and bought a new Outback.
Has a matched ARE canopy too, which to me is very desireable.
I'm second in line on it has had head gaskets and belt, and is getting another belt and water pump tomorrow pre-sale.
Also heard from a forum member but some logistics involved.
I"ve been running autocheck and carfax on many others, one had 4 accidents recorded.
I'm seeing that I had better be prepared to travel if the right one comes to market.
I imagine I'm preaching to the choir, as many have traveled to pick up their Baja on here.
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Re: Shopping for Baja, choices NA vs Turbo, MT vs AT

Post by ZUBAJA »

I have had 6 Foresters and my 03 Baja. My 06 Forester with "variable cam timing" was the most peppy (even at 200K). The '98 with DOHC, was peppy when you put your foot in it. While heavier, I consider my NA / manual Baja (204K) fairly peppy (all stock). My routine jaunts on the local interstate can easily get up to 80 - 85 if I don't watch my speed. Personally, I see the turbo as an added complication and maintenance item. Dennis
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Re: Shopping for Baja, choices NA vs Turbo, MT vs AT

Post by kamesama980 »

Whether or not the NA has enough power is largely up to perspective. It's about on par with most I4 mini trucks or V6 1/2 tons. It does OK but it won't surprise (or excite) anybody. Can't speak for the auto but that's more preference (and I don't prefer them lol). Even towing to capacity with my 03 NA I've never felt under powered except maybe some really steep hills. The transmission has multiple gears for a reason, use them. downshift! not downshifting on hills/towing doesn't say how much power the engine makes, it says how much the driver wants to kill the transmission. I also have a manual turbo but it isn't stock (think STI and then some) and I've never driven a stock turbo baja. or an auto baja.
ZUBAJA wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2019 4:04 am I have had 6 Foresters and my 03 Baja. My 06 Forester with "variable cam timing" was the most peppy (even at 200K). The '98 with DOHC, was peppy when you put your foot in it. While heavier, I consider my NA / manual Baja (204K) fairly peppy (all stock). My routine jaunts on the local interstate can easily get up to 80 - 85 if I don't watch my speed. Personally, I see the turbo as an added complication and maintenance item. Dennis
your 06 forester also has electronic throttle with Subaru's stupid tune. super agressive for the first 10% almost to the point it's hard to drive (to feel peppy) then gutless afterward my inlaws had an 07 auto they sold to my brother.
-Russell
"You don't get to judge me for how I fix what you break"
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05 turbo 5mt vf39 and other STI bits, 3" turbo-back
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Re: Shopping for Baja, choices NA vs Turbo, MT vs AT

Post by ZUBAJA »

"Had". Some drunk decided to turn left in front of my wife. Car could have been saved, but insurance said otherwise. Ended up replacing with an 05 and 100K less miles.
I never really had any "first 10%" thing with the throttle, but if I hit the gas a little too hard, it would flat out get. I had an issue with the "fluid coupling" (I know with the automatic it wasn't really a fluid coupling, but I don't recall the 10.00 actual name for it). Anyway, had an issue with it so i had the fuse pulled for a while to deactivate it. Hit the ga a little too hard then and it would break the front wheels loose. I ended up pulling the tranny extension cover, removed and cleaned the clutch pack, changed tranny fluid and filters, and added Ford friction modifier to cure the coupling issue.
I know from doing the heads that there was a solenoid valve in the one head that controlled the cam "modifier". which seemed to actually open the second set of valves - maybe timed slightly different? Never really looked all that deep into it.
Back to my original statement, my N/A Baja has plenty enough pep for me.
As to statements about having to hit redline, I have never really pushed any of my Subies up that far. Never needed to. While they are lighter, we just had the 05 Forester in the North Carolina mountains, and while the cruise DID pull a couple of 4,000 RPM down shifts, it handled th emountains as well as any other vehicle I have driven. Dennis
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Re: Shopping for Baja, choices NA vs Turbo, MT vs AT

Post by outboardr »

Thanks for all the feedback,

Kamesama, to clarify you've towed 2400lbs with your NA MT and when using the gearbox smartly, no problem?
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Re: Shopping for Baja, choices NA vs Turbo, MT vs AT

Post by BajaTim »

I currently have a 2005 Turbo AT Baja (age 62 - me not the car) and it is a BEAST...I drive pretty sedately until some a-hole drives right up my arse on the highway (I’m not blocking left lane) and I love dusting them until they are a distant speck in my rearview mirror...I feel
I can hang with anyone (may not be reality - but that’s the feeling). Love the AT Sport Shift, & I feel gas mileage is decent.

I bought it 2 years ago - just 30k on it’s 3rd engine, 50k on turbo...lots of maintenance stuff (@196,000 miles) but nothing related to engine or turbo (if u discount the two spark plugs I couldn’t remove 3 wks. ago - but check engine light for cylinder 4 misfire disappeared so must have been a loose coil:)

I’ve had 2, 5-speed WRXs (2002/2004 from 2002 to 2007), a 2000 RS (2000-2002) & a 2007 MINI COOPER S and feel “just as fast” in my Baja.

No mods except K & N cone filter, poly bushings on sway bars, and slightly lower (7.3”) 2003 Outback springs & KYBs.


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outboardr
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Re: Shopping for Baja, choices NA vs Turbo, MT vs AT

Post by outboardr »

Tim,
Thanks for the fun factor report, that does sound fun!
The 03 springs lower it an inch vs the 04 and up springs right? Did the springs make a noticeable difference?

I've been running autocheck and carfax on prospective Baja's out there, damn good thing I am, too.
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Re: Shopping for Baja, choices NA vs Turbo, MT vs AT

Post by BajaTim »

One of the rear struts was gone when I bought it, so I installed the new springs/struts right away - so nothing to compare to - yes - I think about 1” lower (7.3” clearance vs. 8”?).

Having said all that I think my timing chain broke last night 100 miles from Buffalo - towed it to a Suby specialist in Buffalo who believe (without removing engine) that some valves are bent/damaged...so it appears I might have jinxed myself! And of course am wondering if dealer replaced timing belt/water pump on last “new” engine?? I have the invoice so I’ll check when back home.

Pricing engines now as I have a good mech who works for $50/hour - seems engines are $1500-2500 and install about $1000 - not sure it’s worth it to put another $2500 in - maybe just cut my losses:)


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outboardr
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Re: Shopping for Baja, choices NA vs Turbo, MT vs AT

Post by outboardr »

Wow Tim, that's some tough luck if the preliminary diagnosis is correct.
I think EJ255 engine has a belt not a chain right?
Are you thinking a JDM engine or?
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Re: Shopping for Baja, choices NA vs Turbo, MT vs AT

Post by BajaTim »

Well initial research is showing a paucity of Baja EJ255s...quite a few EJ20Xs (I have automatic)...which with their their turbos put out 265-280Hp...theoretically “plug n’ play” and CHEAPER ($895+), but if you read a bit deeper - the same as all DIY stuff on our boards - could be a nightmare (except for experienced mechs)...

“Crate” remanufactured EJ255s - the only acceptable (reliable longtermish) solution for the non-mechanic, financially challenged are about $3500 plus ($4500 CAN in pic) install (which my mech friend could do for cheap - but I would feel bad if I didn’t give him a grand).

So barring a “lucky find”, I’m between a rock and a hard place, looking at pouring in good $ after bad & prob can’t afford to fix it properly - a real shame as it’s given me a GREAT 30,000 miles since I got it in summer of 2016.

I’ve got a 2012 MINI in perfect shape as backup - and just found some used studded winter tires to make it Baja unstoppable...so I’ll
probably let it sit for a while and maybe make a push for some consulting contracts to make some $ for crate solution - or sell it to a mechanic:)ImageImage


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outboardr
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Re: Shopping for Baja, choices NA vs Turbo, MT vs AT

Post by outboardr »

I'm just researching rengine replacement options in case I get a turbo.

https://www.iwireservices.com/post/2017 ... ru-engines

https://www.iwireservices.com/post/2018 ... gine-guide

There's a couple other essays there too. Maybe you've already seen them but it appears the author is trying to forewarn us about JDM pitfalls vs USDM for replacement jobs.
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