1" Lower - is this the best & cheapest of all time?

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BajaTim
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Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:35 am

1" Lower - is this the best & cheapest of all time?

Post by BajaTim »

    A former WRXer, I just bought a low rust, black 2005 Baja Turbo AT with only 30K on a new dealer installed engine.
      Personally, I prefer a very firm suspension with not too much wheel gap - but I'll be renting it out on www.turo.com (airbnb for your personal car) so cannot deviate too far from it's true nature here in Western MA.
        Leaky left rear strut and everything feels floaty so I am going to replace struts/shocks/springs.

        After many hours of bewildering research about inter model compatability I have narrowed my options down to two choices:


        Choice #1

        $953.64 for:

        2005 Baja OE struts/shocks/springs and mounts, seats, covers at www.cheapestfactory parts.com.

        Choice #2

        $773.01 for:

        2003 Baja OE struts/shocks - so 1" or 1.1" lower than 2005 ($164.98 plus shipping) at www.cheapestfactory parts.com

        2004 Outback KYB Excel-G struts/shocks and 2005 Baja mounts, seats, covers ($580.66 free next day shipping from www.autoanything.com).

        Notes:

        - My research says my choice #2 parts are all direct fit (no modifications required) compatible
        - My research says choice #2 suspension will be 1" lower and the outback coil springs will be 30% less firm than stock 2005.
        - I could not find a complete set of OE struts/shocks/springs for the 2001-03 Outback or Baja
        - I could not find non-coilover "performance" struts/shocks (Koni's, KYB AGX, etc.) in the OE replacement cost range (so under $1000) - not going for Rallitec or King.
        - My research says the H6 Outback springs will be 30% FIRMER but only lower .5" - touch call but I would go with lower H4 spring.

        Questions:
        - If anyone could help me out by verifying the accuracy of my research that would be very helpful.

        - If anyone can suggest a better or cheaper "very firm ride, not lower than 1-1.5" that would be great.

        - Am I missing anything? Bumpstops? Install peculiarities? I have a local mechanic at $80/hour.

        - Will the 2005 Baja struts/shocks work with the 1" lower 2003 coil springs PERFECTLY without current or future problems (e.g., strut travel). I am assuming the 2005 Baja struts/shocks will be firmer than the 2003 Outback struts/shocks.

        - I usually run dedicated winter ice tires (Michelin X-Ice or Blizzaks) on a 15" wheel - saw Tirerack had Sparco Terra's in gray with 55 offset - can anybody confirm these will fit our Baja brakes (they fit the 2004 WRXs apparently)? Actually have Powerstops which previous owner put on - I am assuming they are same size as OE but will check: https://www.tirerack.com/wheels/WheelCl ... ey+Painted

        - Any other recommendations for:

        camber/caster adjustment bolts
        adjustable arms
        adjustable endlinks
        swaybar bushings - I would upgrade these first - then go to a Whiteline 19/20mm rear bar if needed - can't seem to find non-rubber poly bushings and a bit uncertain about 2005 Baja rear bar diameter (17mm? 15mm? 13mm?)

        Thanks in advance for any help/advice - will probably put in my order tomorrow as I have mechanic booked on Wednesday.
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        kamesama980
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        Re: 1" Lower - is this the best & cheapest of all time?

        Post by kamesama980 »

        Can't make any promises on fitment but none of it disagrees with what I've read. Couple thoughts, specific and general...

        Specifically: so you're saying regular outback springs are 30% softer but H6s are 30% firmer? sounds fishy that there'd be that much difference, the engine's aren't that different in weight and the 6s were all mated to slushboxes with luxury trims from what I've read.

        So you're going to modify your car then let other random people drive it? Hows insurance/liability work for that kind of thing? seems like a potential nightmare but I'm also rather protective of my stuff. Make sure their insurance covers non-bone-stock OR your insurance covers non-bone-stock AND commercial/rental use. I didn't find anything against it on the website but make sure you check with them BEFORE it's too late.
        -Russell
        "You don't get to judge me for how I fix what you break"
        03 sport 5mt
        05 turbo 5mt vf39 and other STI bits, 3" turbo-back
        BajaTim
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        Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:35 am

        Re: 1" Lower - is this the best & cheapest of all time?

        Post by BajaTim »

        H4 springs 30% less firm than 2005 Baja springs; H6 springs 30% firmer than H4 springs. Assume a spring rate of 300 for Baja: percentage calculations give H4 210; H6 270. Working off forum posts.


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        BajaTim
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        Re: 1" Lower - is this the best & cheapest of all time?

        Post by BajaTim »

        So Turo has standard liability, and 4 levels of "collision" coverage which is collected by their percentage "take" of each rental: 10% if you provide own commercial coverage (apparently $5-7k/year), 15-20% if you accept a $3k deductible ); and 25% if you want zero deductible - last one seems to be a reasonable "management fee" to make $ off of a phone app.


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        kamesama980
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        Re: 1

        Post by kamesama980 »

        BajaTim wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:09 am So Turo has standard liability, and 4 levels of "collision" coverage which is collected by their percentage "take" of each rental: 10% if you provide own commercial coverage (apparently $5-7k/yearImageImageImage), 15-20% if you accept a $3k deductible ImageImageImage); and 25% if you want zero deductible - last one seems to be a reasonable "management fee" to make $ off of a phone app.


        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
        I wasn't worried about their rates, I was pointing out that by giving the keys to a modified car to a stranger, you're opening yourself up to the app's insurance company NOT covering you, payment or not, not to mention civil suit due to "unsafe modification designed to alter the handling of the car" because in the eyes of the lawyers and insurance companies, nothing is safer than a bone stock car. It'd be VERY easy for an lawyer, scrupulous or not, to paint you as the villain.

        I disagree with your ideology about this: you aren't just making money off a phone app. You're contractually renting your car, a potentially deadly object (to the operator or others) with your name on it, to strangers. Even if that person has the best of intentions if something happens to them you won't be dealing with them but their family and lawyers.

        I'm not saying don't: I'm saying read the fine print. in the unlikely case something happens, it'd sure suck to have to deal with the tax headache and additional maintenance from something like this then suddenly be out a car AND liable for the whole shebang. I've been in dissimilar but related situations from working in a shop: due to our insurance and customer service anti-headache-policy, we weren't supposed to touch modified cars at all. If we did it was at the discretion of the local manager with a big-a** disclaimer on the work order. One time someone talked me into trying to align a suspension modified (badly modified and rusted to **** too) car. It went badly and they tried to get warranty work done at another store and file a complaint but because I put (to paraphrase) "car's modified, no warranty, not my problem" with their initials next to on the WO they just got shuffled out the door and I didn't lose my job.
        -Russell
        "You don't get to judge me for how I fix what you break"
        03 sport 5mt
        05 turbo 5mt vf39 and other STI bits, 3" turbo-back
        BajaTim
        Scoobytruck Contributer
        Posts: 82
        Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:35 am

        Re: 1" Lower - is this the best & cheapest of all time?

        Post by BajaTim »

        Gotcha - I missed the "bone-stock-liability" nuance! Good point!
        BajaTim
        Scoobytruck Contributer
        Posts: 82
        Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:35 am

        Done: Lowered 1" with 2003 OE Outback Springs & KYB Struts/Shocks

        Post by BajaTim »

        Parts cost to upgrade & lower (1.1") my 2005 AT Turbo Baja:

        From Cheapestfactoryparts.com:

        2003 Outback Coils

        20330AE51A $33.74
        20330AE52A $33.74
        20380AE39A $97.50 (rear 2)

        From Carid.com (Rockauto was $2-3 cheaper but without free shipping on some items):

        2004 Outback KYB Excel-G Struts/Shocks

        334447 Front Right $79.87
        334448 Front Left $79.87
        341276 Rear $61.01 (2 for $122.02)

        I also ordered (from Carid) for a 2003 Outback:

        KYB® SM5214 - Rear Strut Mounting Kit $21.71

        KYB® SB103 - Front Shock/Strut Bellow $11.67

        AND...

        Not sure how this is going to work out eventually...

        From Suspension.com order some "universal (nothing 2005 Baja specific available here) swaybar stuff:

        Whiteline W21260G front 17mm greaseless bushings for REAR OE swaybar $17.82
        Whiteline W05405-20G front 20mm greaseless bushings for front OE swaybar $17.82
        161101 (manufacturer?) front 20mm greaseless bushings for front OE swaybar bushings $11.37 (did not use)
        *KS30 Heavy Duty Sway Bar Mounting Brackets $26.82 (for set of 2 - so F/R $53.64)
        KLL120 Sway Bar Lateral Locks 19-20mm $26.82
        KLL118 Sway Bar Lateral Locks 17-18mm $26.82

        Total Cost for above was $154.29. My rationale was to save money and still "stiffen" the suspension with bushings instead of actually buying new front and rear bars.

        However...the heavy duty brackets were too BIG for the rear bushings so the bushings totally slipped out as I drove away from mechanics (my parts mistake but what sort of bozo would not realize the bushings would slip out) - next day (Sunday) I grabbed and installed some 1" plumbing conduit U clamps instead and have since retrieved the OE brackets from mechanic which I will install tomorrow. AND mechanic said lateral locks could not be installed, which I will verify tomorrow...

        My Impressions/Comments:

        1. I did not really notice the 1.1" lowering by looking - but while driving I "felt" lower, and compared to Outbacks in the mall parking I was indeed lower:)
        2. You still definitely "feel the bumps" - I'm not sure if it is the poly sway bar bushings doing that? But other than the bumps, the suspension and handling feels "minimally firm" - if I was not going to rent this out on Turo I would go for a Legacy GT or WRX lower (springs and struts)...but acceptable...perhaps the OE 2005 Baja springs would have firmed things up - but I have that wheel gap:)
        3. Poly bushings in rear are squeaking like kRaZy despite being "greaseless" bushings. I'll use white lithium grease tomorrow, but if squeaking keeps up I'll just buy some OE rubber bushings ($5?).

        Future:

        1. I am going to remove the spare (and I have s smaller custom muffler which does not take up much space) - no way am i going to screw around in a snow storm at 2:00 in the morning - SLIME all the way for me!
        2. Which means I think all Impreza - including 20mm 2004 WRX STI rear sway bars will fit - BUT I noticed late model (2015-17) Outbacks have a 19mm and 20mm RSB upgrade ($115??) - am wondering if that fits? I think the key is to measure the respective sway bar lengths - if they are the same if will fit (e.g., apparently Legacy rear sway bars will fit Impreza's but not vice versa due to spare wheel "bump"??).
        3. Looks like the Tribeca 24mm front sway bar is available online for about $75.

        If the current setup ends up being too loose:)

        Other Mods:

        1. That talk of the "banjo" bolt leading to turbo failure is scaring the crap out of me - not sure if the 2005 Bajas missed the boat - but previous owner replaced the turbo so maybe I need to get rid of it (while religiously changing oil at 3750 miles). Is this the same a the "turbo oil filter mesh"? I asked my mechanic to remove and clean but he did not ("there are 4-5 bolts" #wtf).

        2. A/C works intermittently - read to replace the relay and maybe remove a shim - will ask mechanic to do.

        3. Radiator and intercooler seem to be working fine - but perhaps STI in future?

        4. Going to install the SPT (for a WRX) air intake tomorrow - but somehow DIY a box to take advantage of wheel well cold air.

        Finally realizing (activity level on this board) that Bajas have become uncommon:)
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