Lurker that wanted a Baja turbo

General talk about the Subaru Baja.

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harleyjohn45
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Lurker that wanted a Baja turbo

Post by harleyjohn45 »

I've been reading this site as well as others and Baja turbo vehicles appear to be a money pit. Oil has to be changed often, oil filter is a bad design and there is a bypass filter than can clog and ruin your engine and turbo. I have a 2016 Lincoln MKT twin turbo and makes 385 HP from 3.5 liter engine. I currently drive a 2001 Chevy Tracker with 107 k miles and I've spent nothing on it. I love small vehicles for around town for ease of parking, but I want something with a small bed and I like the crew cab on the Baja. Would I find the NA Baja more reliable and it would have 65 more HP than my Tracker? I only drive about 5000 miles a year. If anyone cares to answer, it would be appreciated.
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Re: Lurker that wanted a Baja turbo

Post by mike-tracy »

The newest Baja is now 13 years old, and it's reliability really depends on how its owner(s) treated them.

Whenever people talk about Honda and Toyota reliability, and mention how all they changed was brake pads & oil, I have to assume that they left a lot of maintenance on the table for the next owner.

My own Baja came with 164k miles on it. All original everything. Including the timing belt! Runs great, but like all Subarus, it leaks a bit of oil from various seals.

If you really want a Baja, you want one owned by a person who fastidiously maintained it. And be willing to pay for it. A $4000 NA Baja is probably a maintenance trap.
1992 Legacy SS, 5mt and heavily modified
2000 Impreza RSTi Coupe
2003 Baja, H6 and Dual Range 5mt swap
ZUBAJA
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Re: Lurker that wanted a Baja turbo

Post by ZUBAJA »

I agree with "Mike". You have to shop. My 03 NA Baja is right at 202K miles. AFAIK, I am 3rd owner. Original owners allegedly towed it behind a motorhome, but how many miles does one REALLY put on a motorhome? The second owner, a retired Subaru / Isuzu mechanic had the history of what he had done to the vehicle, and other than a new clutch, it was normal routine maintenance (CV shafts, front wheel bearing, etc). Try to find something with some history available.
As far as "the fit", I went from am Isuzu extra cab pickup with a 6 foot bed and 4x4. The only thing I really miss is the length of the bed, but I have a trailer for that stuff. I love the gas mileage (average about 20 MPG in town with a lot of stoplights). I have the 4 seat crew cab option, and with the 5 speed, it is like a sports car. I love that I can just throw crap in the back, and I have hauled 12 FOOT long 2 x 8s with it :D (red flagged of course)
I'm not convinced that a turbo subie is all that much extra maintenance, but I guarantee that if it had poor maintenance, it will be extra headaches. Dennis
harleyjohn45
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Re: Lurker that wanted a Baja turbo

Post by harleyjohn45 »

I can't disagree with any thing you folks have said. I want the Turbo model, the one I considering is an 05 with 117 k on the clock.
I understand the Oil filter on a Baja is undersized, but this can be corrected and perhaps an additional oil cooler. It's also recommended to not exceed 3 k miles on an oil change. At a later date if I buy this vehicle, I will post pictures and mods installed. Back to lurking.
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kamesama980
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Re: Lurker that wanted a Baja turbo

Post by kamesama980 »

harleyjohn45 wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:37 pm I've been reading this site as well as others and Baja turbo vehicles appear to be a money pit. Oil has to be changed often, oil filter is a bad design and there is a bypass filter than can clog and ruin your engine and turbo. I have a 2016 Lincoln MKT twin turbo and makes 385 HP from 3.5 liter engine. I currently drive a 2001 Chevy Tracker with 107 k miles and I've spent nothing on it. I love small vehicles for around town for ease of parking, but I want something with a small bed and I like the crew cab on the Baja. Would I find the NA Baja more reliable and it would have 65 more HP than my Tracker? I only drive about 5000 miles a year. If anyone cares to answer, it would be appreciated.
Actually, none of those criticisms are particularly unique to the Baja Turbo. The OCI is on par with it's contemporaries. ANY turbo engine needs more frequent oil changes than a similar NA. Almost all oil filters have a bypass that allows unfiltered oil past the filter if the differential pressure gets too high (dirty oil is better than no oil), the only fault is that they didn't put a bypass on the secondary filters in the banjo bolts.

While the NA baja has 65 more HP, it's also lugging around 650-1000 lbs more vehicle so it balances out. (01 tracker curb weight 2600-2950 lbs, NA baja is around 3650). The NA baja 5-speed doesn't feel that bad except accelerating in a straight line, then you notice the Prius pulling away. (I have a 15 Prius, 03 Baja NA 5 speed, and 05 Baja turbo 5 speed making more power than your Lincoln till it started making more noises too (20psi VF39 on stock 165k engine lol))

The NA baja certainly has less parts to fail than the turbo and the engine is less stressed but at this point (13 years old and ??? miles) previous maintenance will play a bigger part than configuration. Your Tracker, for example, is long over due for all the fluids, belts, and probably a few other things. Suzuki did make those things to last though.
-Russell
"You don't get to judge me for how I fix what you break"
03 sport 5mt
05 turbo 5mt vf39 and other STI bits, 3" turbo-back
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Re: Lurker that wanted a Baja turbo

Post by harleyjohn45 »

Well Russell I bought the 2006 Baja. It is a beautiful car showing little wear, drives and rides great, best radio I've ever seen. About 20 miles after I left the dealer the check engine light came on, Here I am in Tyler Texas and need to be in Ruidoso, NM. When the Check engine light came on, I lost cruise control. No biggie. I also noticed the car had lost all it's power, but was cruising at 65 mph, so I left it there. Made it to Dallas just fine, the next morning we visited friends in Dallas and cruised on into Abilene, Texas. When I pulled up to a stop light I could smell oil dripping on the exhaust and could see a small amount of smoke. I was also a quart low by then, so I stopped at Walmart and bought 2 quarts of Quaker state, that's what the last oil change was. I cruised on into Alto, NM. The car was struggling in the mountains, car ran quiet and no smoke out the back, temperature never got above normal. I wanted this car in my garage where my tools were. Tomorrow I have a mobile mechanic coming to help me start taking things apart, I would have already started, but I want him to hear the car and help me plan a course of action. We will try to find the source of the oil leak. I have 5 fault codes a P0011 that showed up twice, at P0021 that showed up twice and a
P0457 that showed up once. This car runs so good and smooth, with no noise of any kind, it's hard to believe the engine is gone. We will try to find the oil leak and then start to removing the inter cooler (which I found a split hose on), then we will remove the Turbo and check for damage (the turbo is under warranty and If I need one I can get it free) I will probably send it back to the mechanic that installed it, he said he will return it for me. We will pull the oil pan and check for shrapnel there. I will post findings here. I would like to have a volt meter, Boost gauge and a oil pressure gauge. There is not a good place to install them, I may do a pillar gauge installation on the door pillar.
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Re: Lurker that wanted a Baja turbo

Post by harleyjohn45 »

Today we removed the inter cooler and the turbo. I wanted the mechanic to listen to the engine and he said it sounded good to him.The inter cooler had a little oil, but no shrapnel. the right side banjo bolt had the filter in it and it was yucky. We could not get the left side banjo out, because it was trapped my the timing belt cover. That's no problem, because I've already ordered a new timing belt and water pump. I bought the Gates set from Amazon, a little over 200.00 The turbo is toast, but the chap who installed it told me to send it to him, because it's under warranty. It's headed to Texas Monday Morning. The Turbo was all locked up, but didn't appear to have lost much metal. I drained the oil and it looked clean, I swabbed the oil pan out good with a rifle cleaning rod and didn't get anything but clean oil. I may go ahead and pull the oil pan. It looks tight in there, but I may can do it without having to jack the engine up. I found a bad CV joint cover and ordered that. I wanted to buy new radiator hoses and inter cooler hoses. I have a couple that are cracked. Found tons for WRX and STI. Not much for Baja. The Mechanic and I both feel that we can save it.
I did drive it 700 miles with a broken turbo.
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kamesama980
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Re: Lurker that wanted a Baja turbo

Post by kamesama980 »

11 and 21 are both cam timing related, a plugged up banjo bolt could be the culprit as it's the same failure tree as the turbo oil starvation.

Sounds like the dealership was all too happy to see the car gone. I would have to be only slightly more cynical to say they knew it was on it's way out and just changed the oil and cleared the codes to sell it.

I used a silicone coolant hose kit for an 04 STI and was only short 1 or 2 after cutting some extras up to make-do. No there isn't much aftermarket directly for the Bajas.
-Russell
"You don't get to judge me for how I fix what you break"
03 sport 5mt
05 turbo 5mt vf39 and other STI bits, 3" turbo-back
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Re: Lurker that wanted a Baja turbo

Post by harleyjohn45 »

kamesama980 wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:28 am 11 and 21 are both cam timing related, a plugged up banjo bolt could be the culprit as it's the same failure tree as the turbo oil starvation.

Sounds like the dealership was all too happy to see the car gone. I would have to be only slightly more cynical to say they knew it was on it's way out and just changed the oil and cleared the codes to sell it.

I used a silicone coolant hose kit for an 04 STI and was only short 1 or 2 after cutting some extras up to make-do. No there isn't much aftermarket directly for the Bajas.
This car looked too good to have that much wrong with it. The put 2 turbo's on the car and both blew right out. The mechanic that put the turbo's on the car is getting me a new one at no charge except shipping.
So the 04 STI is very similar to the Baja?? I'll order a kit right away.
I bought the Subaru recommended ATF, 10 quarts 121.00 and the filter is 28.00 Ouch
Thanks for your answer.
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kamesama980
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Re: Lurker that wanted a Baja turbo

Post by kamesama980 »

harleyjohn45 wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:51 pm
kamesama980 wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:28 am 11 and 21 are both cam timing related, a plugged up banjo bolt could be the culprit as it's the same failure tree as the turbo oil starvation.

Sounds like the dealership was all too happy to see the car gone. I would have to be only slightly more cynical to say they knew it was on it's way out and just changed the oil and cleared the codes to sell it.

I used a silicone coolant hose kit for an 04 STI and was only short 1 or 2 after cutting some extras up to make-do. No there isn't much aftermarket directly for the Bajas.
This car looked too good to have that much wrong with it. The put 2 turbo's on the car and both blew right out. The mechanic that put the turbo's on the car is getting me a new one at no charge except shipping.
So the 04 STI is very similar to the Baja?? I'll order a kit right away.
I bought the Subaru recommended ATF, 10 quarts 121.00 and the filter is 28.00 Ouch
Thanks for your answer.
It's what I bought after tearing into the engine and looking at pics on store websites vs the pile of hoses I had. It was close, there may be other things that are closer. All subarus are pretty similar but it's the details that kill ya. Mine also isn't stock... I have an 04 STI turbo, IC, ECM, full custom exhaust, intake to the turbo, TGV deletes, IAG oil-water separator, and a few other things.
-Russell
"You don't get to judge me for how I fix what you break"
03 sport 5mt
05 turbo 5mt vf39 and other STI bits, 3" turbo-back
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Re: Lurker that wanted a Baja turbo

Post by harleyjohn45 »

kamesama980 wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:42 am
harleyjohn45 wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:51 pm
kamesama980 wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:28 am 11 and 21 are both cam timing related, a plugged up banjo bolt could be the culprit as it's the same failure tree as the turbo oil starvation.

Sounds like the dealership was all too happy to see the car gone. I would have to be only slightly more cynical to say they knew it was on it's way out and just changed the oil and cleared the codes to sell it.

I used a silicone coolant hose kit for an 04 STI and was only short 1 or 2 after cutting some extras up to make-do. No there isn't much aftermarket directly for the Bajas.
This car looked too good to have that much wrong with it. The put 2 turbo's on the car and both blew right out. The mechanic that put the turbo's on the car is getting me a new one at no charge except shipping.
So the 04 STI is very similar to the Baja?? I'll order a kit right away.
I bought the Subaru recommended ATF, 10 quarts 121.00 and the filter is 28.00 Ouch
Thanks for your answer.
It's what I bought after tearing into the engine and looking at pics on store websites vs the pile of hoses I had. It was close, there may be other things that are closer. All subarus are pretty similar but it's the details that kill ya. Mine also isn't stock... I have an 04 STI turbo, IC, ECM, full custom exhaust, intake to the turbo, TGV deletes, IAG oil-water separator, and a few other things.
The 04 STI hose kit will be here next week. I have ordered gaskets for the oil pan. I think I should pull the pan and do a thorough cleaning and inspection.
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Re: Lurker that wanted a Baja turbo

Post by harleyjohn45 »

Well I have all my parts, except the turbo and should get it next week. My mechanic works for a trucking company and they had a truck involved in a collision last week in Dallas. It may be a week or two before he is back again.
I had a bit of bad luck so I will be out of commission for 3 or 4 weeks. I fell off a ladder last Monday and cracked a rib in my back. I've been laid up for the last week and probably will be laid up for 2 more weeks. Then on January 10, 2020 I'm getting a knee replacement. That will be another couple of months. The way this project is moving, it will be June before it's on the road. :oops:

There is very little you can do with a bad back except wash parts.
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Re: Lurker that wanted a Baja turbo

Post by harleyjohn45 »

Upon a very close examination of the intercooler I did find a few traces of metal, so there is more in there. I am contemplating getting a new inter cooler. Some say get a little more capacity, maybe a front mount. What would be the advantages of running a slightly larger intercooler with the stock turbo. I live at 7300 feet above sea level and 90 octane is the most powerful gasoline. I use 96 octane in the daily drivers and 88 octane in the classic and hot rods. Never experienced and knocking or pinging. Still looking for the most reliable set up possible.
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Re: Lurker that wanted a Baja turbo

Post by kamesama980 »

harleyjohn45 wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:15 pm Upon a very close examination of the intercooler I did find a few traces of metal, so there is more in there. I am contemplating getting a new inter cooler. Some say get a little more capacity, maybe a front mount. What would be the advantages of running a slightly larger intercooler with the stock turbo. I live at 7300 feet above sea level and 90 octane is the most powerful gasoline. I use 96 octane in the daily drivers and 88 octane in the classic and hot rods. Never experienced and knocking or pinging. Still looking for the most reliable set up possible.
For the stock turbo? Zip benefit to a front mount. lots of money and effort in piping and mounts.

A bigger top-mount IC might allow the less delta-p for the same temp but afaik the stock turbo isn't putting out enough heat/pressure to be a problem yet anyway. I vote to keep it stock unless you can find a take-off from another model for cheap.
-Russell
"You don't get to judge me for how I fix what you break"
03 sport 5mt
05 turbo 5mt vf39 and other STI bits, 3" turbo-back
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Re: Lurker that wanted a Baja turbo

Post by mike-tracy »

A fmic will add lag, every time you stab the throttle, the puny little turbo will have to pressurize 10 feet of 2"+ of pipe. Versus 1.5-2 feet in a tmic. Unless you plan to swap to a large turbo, I vote replace your tmic with the same one.

Source: I have a TD04HLA with a FMIC.
1992 Legacy SS, 5mt and heavily modified
2000 Impreza RSTi Coupe
2003 Baja, H6 and Dual Range 5mt swap
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