Father looking to get Baja. Looking for info

[Darksurfr]

Hi everyone.

So I am here to collect information and most likely will stick around after to be the informant for the questions my dad asks about whatever he gets. He has wanted a Baja for years and the time has come that it seems like the best vehicle for him overall. This promotes a problem of not knowing much about Subarus myself but even more so of not knowing anything in particular about the BAJAs

What would really help me out is a list of known issues / things to look for. Now I don't mean the typical things such as bad tires or warn accessory belts/ tensioning pulleys or what have you that you look at on most cars when you look to buy one. I am looking for the kind of info that years of driving from many drivers compiled into these lovely forums. I myself am a big 3/S nerd. By that I mean a 3000GT/Stealth guy. I do all my own work and know what to look for. If anyone were to ask me about what to look for I would say well the early cars had problems with their ECUs with bad capacitors. The window regulators are notorious for breaking on the top. Leaves collect inside the front fenders against the body and rot out the bottom of the fender under the side skirts. Rear motor mount usually is broken in old cars (rubber wears out). These are the things that years of many people owning cars figures out so that you know what to replace and when to replace it to have a relatively headache free life of owning a car.

I have been slowly reading some of the technical information to figure out little things but a nice compiled list of "what to look for when buying" would be a great tool while searching for a car. The cars themselves seem to hold their value well for a car that was produced for 4 years?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

[Rizzo]

Mechanical :

Depending on the mileage it may be time for the service interval and Head gasket,timing belt,water pump and new seal time.

We really don't have a lot that an above average car buyer would look for in any car.

Body :

Check the rear dog leg area,inside the door jamb. We get rust bubbles there.

Electrical :

Blown headlight. Ask if that happened recently. I have read when our alternators die the VR goes super nova and over volts the system in pulses. Blown headlights or both MAY be a sign.

[Darksurfr]

Mechanical :

Depending on the mileage it may be time for the service interval and Head gasket,timing belt,water pump and new seal time.

We really don't have a lot that an above average car buyer would look for in any car.

Body :

Check the rear dog leg area,inside the door jamb. We get rust bubbles there.

Electrical :

Blown headlight. Ask if that happened recently. I have read when our alternators die the VR goes super nova and over volts the system in pulses. Blown headlights or both MAY be a sign.

This is what I am looking for. Head gasket? Do they just fail or is that somehow a service item for a H.I. engine? Timing belt and water pump make sense. Are they a 60K item? or does subaru say 100K? When you say new seal time do you mean the whole engine or are there specifics to look for?

Anything else?

[Rizzo]

The above service interval is 90K - 100K.

I have the Warranty and Scheduled Maintenance booklet that came with mine in 2003...

The timing belt and such are not listed, So here's some truth from a sorta Scooby Newbie.

I have heard literally hundreds of times that the HG's were going to be an issue and almost an equal number of times I have been told at 100K expect to do the following... which I stated above.

So when I went to look for mine I had $1,600 put aside and figured into the purchase price of said used Baja, I learned this from my wife's 1999 Forester L and the mechanics I have spoken to and forums I have read online.

There is no miracle cure provided by anyone's mechanic dad,brother in law or uncle that will prevent you from having to pay for a set on a boxer engine. The horizontally opposed pistons and the Boxer engine have thin walled coolant and oil journals. The gasket between them works really hard its whole life.

The rest gets done under a "While you're in there" type of thought process if it's time for it.

YMMV


Seals :

Camshaft,spark plug well and valve cover gasket/seals. You should get a whole set of those with either of the above jobs.

Again, being a Boxer engine is hard work, they need shit.

The rewards are well worth it.

[Nitro350Z]

RE: Head gaskets

You also have to keep in mind that the head gasket is constantly in contact with the coolant, most of the issues come from a combination of not changing coolant frequently enough (or using a non oem fluid) letting it become acidic and that the head gasket on the NA's weren't mls as they are in the revised gasket and the turbo ones. It doesn't have to do with the boxer design or thin walls. The revised head gasket and the turbo head gaskets don't have that issue.

Other than what was already mentioned, you should know that Subaru motors are kinda noisy, especially the NA. You'll hear lifter tick, piston slap, various little noises, etc on a cold start, and sometimes even when up to temp, especially lifter tick at idle. They can almost sound like a diesel engine sometimes. If you're one of those people who winces anytime you hear any sort of mechanical noise you'll drive yourself crazy.

One common issue I've seen is the drivers seat bolster cracking, the leather is closer to vinyl than leather. the material changed throughout the years but i can't remember which years got what.

They're great otherwise, and you'll be happy if you find a nice example.

[Darksurfr]

RE: Head gaskets

You also have to keep in mind that the head gasket is constantly in contact with the coolant, most of the issues come from a combination of not changing coolant frequently enough (or using a non oem fluid) letting it become acidic and that the head gasket on the NA's weren't mls as they are in the revised gasket and the turbo ones. It doesn't have to do with the boxer design or thin walls. The revised head gasket and the turbo head gaskets don't have that issue.

Other than what was already mentioned, you should know that Subaru motors are kinda noisy, especially the NA. You'll hear lifter tick, piston slap, various little noises, etc on a cold start, and sometimes even when up to temp, especially lifter tick at idle. They can almost sound like a diesel engine sometimes. If you're one of those people who winces anytime you hear any sort of mechanical noise you'll drive yourself crazy.

One common issue I've seen is the drivers seat bolster cracking, the leather is closer to vinyl than leather. the material changed throughout the years but i can't remember which years got what.

They're great otherwise, and you'll be happy if you find a nice example.

Ok so I guess what I am to take away from this is that with proper maintenance of the coolant and the changing of the head gasket to a MLS style vs I guess a composite should keep the engine running nicely for years (obviously other maintenance included)? You are also saying that the turbos didn't seem to have the problems that the NA had with the original head gaskets?

As long as the vehicle is smooth I don't think my dad cares all that much about some engine noise. I am the kind of person that drives a car for a while and gets used to the noises that it makes and then when something changes I notice. But over all good information.

[LrgLnrd]

One thing I can think of is the transmissions could potentially have bearing issues.
I bought my 03 with 181k 5 speed with original clutch. When I test drove it I heard a real loud growl when in gear clutch engaged. Push in the clutch and it went away. Long story short it turns out that there are know issues with the transmission and If I recall correctly the front input shaft bearing gong bad and allowing play... Which can eventually lead to allowing it to pop out of gears... My 4th gear decided to flip me the bird the entire time I was helping my girlfriend move. It still drove but was a bit annoying...
In turn I put in a transmission, rear diff, clutch and new flywheel. Not all at once but throughout the first year of ownership. I bought it understanding these potential costs and got a very fair price on it.
Not sure how into the fact of putting money into a "New" used car your father is... but if you willing to it is definitely money well spent.
Hope this helps
Greg

[Nitro350Z]

Ok so I guess what I am to take away from this is that with proper maintenance of the coolant and the changing of the head gasket to a MLS style vs I guess a composite should keep the engine running nicely for years (obviously other maintenance included)? You are also saying that the turbos didn't seem to have the problems that the NA had with the original head gaskets?

Yeah, the turbo's got the better MLS headgasket from the get go thus not having any issues. The headgasket issue usually affects the earlier 2.5l Subaru models more than the later ones. From what I hear it usually happened between 20k-30k miles for the problem years and otherwise could happen around 60k - 100k miles. Keep in mind it's one of those things that gets stated a lot while only affecting a relatively small portion of those sold. When I pulled my motor it still appeared to have the original head gaskets and I didn't have any issues with it.

One thing I can think of is the transmissions could potentially have bearing issues.
I heard a real loud growl when in gear clutch engaged. Push in the clutch and it went away.

That would be the throw out bearing. They'll wear out quickly if the driver is constantly holding in the clutch (as in every at every light or whenever stopped instead of throwing it into neutral and clutching out) or if they tend to rest their foot on the clutch pedal while driving.

Long story short it turns out that there are know issues with the transmission and If I recall correctly the front input shaft bearing gong bad and allowing play... Which can eventually lead to allowing it to pop out of gears...

This is a known issue with the Legacy GT transmission, there's a kit available that reinforces the snout to prevent the issue in the future: http://www.fredbeansparts.com/subaru-le ... e-kit.html
As far as I'm aware, the Baja transmission isn't known for those kind of issues. Popping out of gears would point more towards a syncro issue than an input shaft problem. You'll get issues if you're not fully depressing the clutch on shifts, forcing it into gears, "grinding gears" often, or if you're using the syncros to rev-match on shifts (more-so on downshifts but it causes wear on up-shifts too if you're really hamming it up) Not really Subaru specific issues but something to watch out for.

Because of the AWD system there are some other issues that might arise. Handbrake application while driving, on the 5MT at least (the auto has an electronically controlled center diff that should in theory decouple when the handbrake is applied), puts a lot of stress on the center differential which can cause one of the snap rings to dislodge and get chewed up in the transmission which ends up necessitating a full rebuild. Driving hard and doing lots of quick tight radius turns can also accelerate wear.

One more thing that came to mind is that if it has had a timing service (or if it's due for one), make sure all the idlers and tensioner have been replaced. The tensioner on the NA Subaru motors is known to fail if it isn't replaced with the belt (and sometimes earlier), not catastrophically from what I've seen but it can lead to engine damage (timing skipping teeth causing valves to be too intimate with pistons, etc) if it isn't dealt with in a timely manner, so if you hear rattling from around the timing cover expect to get that changed asap.

Again, a lot of these things only affect a small number of Baja's, just make sure you keep an eye out for these and decide for yourself if you want to deal with these issues and negotiate a better price or move on to one that doesn't have these issues.

[Darksurfr]

Ok so I guess what I am to take away from this is that with proper maintenance of the coolant and the changing of the head gasket to a MLS style vs I guess a composite should keep the engine running nicely for years (obviously other maintenance included)? You are also saying that the turbos didn't seem to have the problems that the NA had with the original head gaskets?

Yeah, the turbo's got the better MLS headgasket from the get go thus not having any issues. The headgasket issue usually affects the earlier 2.5l Subaru models more than the later ones. From what I hear it usually happened between 20k-30k miles for the problem years and otherwise could happen around 60k - 100k miles. Keep in mind it's one of those things that gets stated a lot while only affecting a relatively small portion of those sold. When I pulled my motor it still appeared to have the original head gaskets and I didn't have any issues with it.

One thing I can think of is the transmissions could potentially have bearing issues.
I heard a real loud growl when in gear clutch engaged. Push in the clutch and it went away.

That would be the throw out bearing. They'll wear out quickly if the driver is constantly holding in the clutch (as in every at every light or whenever stopped instead of throwing it into neutral and clutching out) or if they tend to rest their foot on the clutch pedal while driving.

Long story short it turns out that there are know issues with the transmission and If I recall correctly the front input shaft bearing gong bad and allowing play... Which can eventually lead to allowing it to pop out of gears...

This is a known issue with the Legacy GT transmission, there's a kit available that reinforces the snout to prevent the issue in the future: http://www.fredbeansparts.com/subaru-le ... e-kit.html
As far as I'm aware, the Baja transmission isn't known for those kind of issues. Popping out of gears would point more towards a syncro issue than an input shaft problem. You'll get issues if you're not fully depressing the clutch on shifts, forcing it into gears, "grinding gears" often, or if you're using the syncros to rev-match on shifts (more-so on downshifts but it causes wear on up-shifts too if you're really hamming it up) Not really Subaru specific issues but something to watch out for.

Because of the AWD system there are some other issues that might arise. Handbrake application while driving, on the 5MT at least (the auto has an electronically controlled center diff that should in theory decouple when the handbrake is applied), puts a lot of stress on the center differential which can cause one of the snap rings to dislodge and get chewed up in the transmission which ends up necessitating a full rebuild. Driving hard and doing lots of quick tight radius turns can also accelerate wear.

One more thing that came to mind is that if it has had a timing service (or if it's due for one), make sure all the idlers and tensioner have been replaced. The tensioner on the NA Subaru motors is known to fail if it isn't replaced with the belt (and sometimes earlier), not catastrophically from what I've seen but it can lead to engine damage (timing skipping teeth causing valves to be too intimate with pistons, etc) if it isn't dealt with in a timely manner, so if you hear rattling from around the timing cover expect to get that changed asap.

Again, a lot of these things only affect a small number of Baja's, just make sure you keep an eye out for these and decide for yourself if you want to deal with these issues and negotiate a better price or move on to one that doesn't have these issues.

The center diff thing is helpful. The transmission things sound like any manual driven by people who suck at driving manual. I know my old trans in my car had the input shaft bearing issue which was from over use of the clutch pedal by the previous three owners. Everything else is good info though.

Yea I know that most people wouldn't opt to get this as a New car when its old and used but he has always had his eye on them and they suit his needs. AWD for the snow (MUCH better then 4WD), passenger space since he likes to have his family in the car, and a small bed for his handyman work that he does. Able to carry tools and some other things to a job site. Not to mention made for the ability to carry stuff on the roof if need be and can always get a small trailer to tow.

I want him to stick with a manual as I never trust Autos that have over 60K as people tend to abuse them and not service them as they should and the turbo would be better if he ever had to pull anything.

You guys have been more then friendly and helpful. I hope in time I will become familiar with this EJ25 engine and this platform and be able to return the info. If anyone plans on getting a 3000GT or Stealth you let me know. I will talk you ear off with information.

[Nitro350Z]

Yeah, I'm a much bigger fan of the manuals as well. The Subaru auto is nothing to really write home about, it's reliable but not very fun and feels slower when compared to the manual in my opinion but it does have a better electronically controlled center differential vs the viscous one in the manual. The Subaru AWD is a blast in winter, with a set of proper winter tires you really have to go out of your way to get stuck.

I think I can say for everyone, we're glad to help out

The Baja is definitely a quirky vehicle but I've honestly found it to be one of the most versatile cars out there, best of luck to your father in his search and hopefully he enjoys the Baja when he gets one.

[SnowOwl]

I'll be picking up an 06 sport with 77k miles on it, next week! Thanks for this, it gives me an idea of what to look for. I'll also be having a mechanic taking a look before I pull the trigger. Hopefully I won't have to deal with any of the mentioned

[bajaguy]

Don't forget pics!